'You Are Also A Child-Chopper!' with Janardana Das, Chandra Shaker, Prahlad Das & Tim Lee (FB 13/7/13)

Chandra Shaker's original post in 'PRABHUPADANUGAS ONLY' FaceBook Group:

Why not set some rules and regulations for posting in these groups? No personal attacks are permitted on any Prabhupanuga devotees with the exception of any serious deviations which may endanger other devotees. This means only posts of a positive nature in line with Srila Prabhupadas teachings can be made in these groups. Bogus gurus and sinister Iskcon activities etc. can still be exposed and reported and all content should be Krsna Conscious in nature.. The devotees can decide by posting their views this way it prevents the infighting which is unproductive and certainly not pleasing to Srila Prabhupada. Anyone who continues to post articles directly attacking other Prabhupadanuga devotees in the group should be given three chances maximum and if they continue then they should be blocked from the groups. Just a suggestion its up to the group members to decide though. Hare Krsna.

COMMENTS:

Janardana Das: If we can't post legitimate concerns within this Prabhupadanuga community, where can we post them? How can the ritviks address this bad element in this community, if we can't even pose legitimate concerns? Truth must be spoken.... if a thief is a thief it is our duty to point this out for the benefit of the whole collective group, so they do not get cheated. Is it not? This is just like lancing a boil. Where was this "rules and regulations" proposition when Rupa manjari, or Prahlad das were being attacked so violently, and continue to be attacked?. So far there are hundreds of devotees and growing anxious to see a resolution to the offensive/aggressive nature of pada1008. Milk touched by the lips of a serpent contaminates everything....everything is spoiled.

Chandra Shaker: Yes if there is actual factual evidence that the thief is theif then they can be considered as deviating and a threat to other devotees as i pointed out. However the problem is it seems the motivation is personal grudges that cause the fighting and no evidence is actually presented. Other than speculations and accusations.

Janardana Das: I can understand what you mean, however again I was completely impartial to this whole controversy until a friend of mine (Prahlad das ) was attacked and accused of being a "child chopper".. as unbelievable as that sounds I now have opened my eyes to the real problem, The facts are as follows: The ritviks are considered by the devotional community to be angry/offensive/hateful/malicious/disinformation. I know also for a fact that this perception is directly connected with Pada1008. We can continue to go down this road, or acknowledge the problem and stop the poison from spreading... make appropriate reconciliations and move on in a positive way, full of new and renewed energy.

Janardana Das: It's not hard to make a blog and post nice positive advancements in the ritvik field, If pada1008 is removed from the internet as hate speech, I know several qualified devotees who can fill that void without the hate and aggressiveness that pada1008 contains. Possibly even repair the damage caused.

Janardana Das: It's just that pada1008 has so much free time on his hands... he can afford to do these things all day, Others have jobs...and householder duties to tend to. However I am confident that together a more positive perception of ritviks can be achieved through the right spirit of cooperation.

Chandra Shaker: Its simple Puranjana has to present the original letter from Mukunda that states the Gurukul kids should be chopped up and fed to the dogs. I think some of PADAs blogs are very good and informative, i dont think blocking him or singling him out as the culprit is right. The Mukunda group and Puranjana have been at each other for years so its about time it was resolved. All they have to do is stop attacking each other from what i understand Pada has already agreed to this.?

Janardana Das: I also agree that some of padas blogs are very good and informative... i really do prabhu, BUT what did Prabhupada say about milk touched by the lips of a serpent?

Prahlad Das: There is no 'child-chopping' letter. Neither Sanat, Mukunda or anyone has ever said this. Devotees have been asking Tim for 15 years to show this letter. Tim has just been repeating this 'child-chopper' lie to discredit anyone who exposes his blaming Prabhupada for the child-abuse, his malicious lies about sincere devotees, his demoniac lifestyle, etc...

Chandra Shaker: Can you really say he is a serpant? If you have some evidence or proof to support that fair enough present it for the benefit of others...99% of his blogs are on the "Guru issue" which we are all in agreement with.

Janardana Das: It's more of an analogy, I dont actually know if he is a naga serpent... but his actions seem to indicate some serious personality/character flaws. Do you think Srila Prabhupada would be happy with Pada1008?

Chandra Shaker: Then if the letter was never written then Puranjana will have to explain why he made these accusations...if they are blatent lies then its up to the group to decide if he is blocked.

Janardana Das: agreed. This is positive and constructive discussion that should have happened years ago...

Chandra Shaker: Lets hope so...lol.. Hare Krsna. Its up to the group so everyone will have to let us know their opinion on the matter and Puranjana also allowed to present his case.. Producing some evidence of the letter would be a good start.

Janardana Das: agreed. Proper leadership and maturity are very good qualities to have. Thank you Chandra Shaker for stepping up to at least accomidate the dialogue needed to move forward with this issue. Hare Krsna.

Prahlad Das: I have seen a copy of the only actual letter/eMail that Sanat sent to the Gurukulis in 1993. In it he sympathises with them and encourages them to fight back against the abusers. His writing 'style' is quite strong and somewhat 'unfocused' but his poin...See More...

Prahlad Das: Sanat in action (02:20) http://youtu.be/jN0py20UrB4

Janardana Das: Didnt' Geroge Bush SR. say " If you tell a lie enough times people will come to believe it" ? Typical demoniac strategy...

Prahlad Das: Apparently Hitler said that about repeating a lie. Bush Jr said "You are either with us or you are with the terrorists", just like Tim PADA says "You are with me or you are with the 'child-choppers'".

Janardana Das: Ah yes.. thank you for the correction, Well I guess I am a child chopper then. I should probably warn my wife not to bring my child near me. As he will be subject to "chopping"... But what if, there is a serious problem within a sociey that needs to be addressed for the benefit of the collective group? Prabhupada said we must discuss issues "thread bare"... until the issue is resolved. This issue is a practical example of how to apply Prabhupadas teaching to a society... this is a lesson for us to learn and get past, so that we can serve Srila Prabhupada better.

Tim Lee: Un-moderated forums dry up, that is proven whatever the topic is, even mundane forums that have a few people shouting others down lose members. This was supposed to be a forum about Prabhupada, and some people here wanted to talk about me and not Prabhupada...

Janardana Das: This will not dry up, I assure you prabhu, as you are very serious offender... there will be a solution to this problem one way or another. By the way have you found the child chopper letter yet?

Tim Lee: Prahlad just posted a letter a few days ago saying that these offenders (the children) need to be dropped on upraised swords? He posted that himself? Are you people reading what you are yourself posting? Or am I arguing with a ghost here? ys pd

Prahlad Das: Here we go... All the same old lies and nonsense.

Janardana Das: So your convinced that by "offender" he meant "the children" and not the actual abusers who were involved in the crimes towards the children?

Tim Lee: Mukunda also sayd the Prabhupadanuga groups are bogus cults, its on their web site?

Prahlad Das: Stop changing subject, rascal.

Janardana Das: Im not interested in hear say, I want the original letter that you have quoted for so long... Im talking about the accusation of Prahlad das being a child chopper. Dont swtich subject matters. Its very simple, do you have proof that Prahlad Das is a child chopper or not? yes or no...

Tim Lee: Yes, just a few days ago Prahlad posted a letter saying the children need to be placed on upraised swords, nevermind what I said or did not say, that is what he just now said.

Prahlad Das: More lies.

Janardana Das: show it to us.

Tim Lee: Yes, he wants children to be place on upraised swords, he wants to chop them up, yes he just posted that?

Janardana Das: I havent seen it.. provide link please.

Tim Lee: Prahlad posted that

Prahlad Das: Sanat said that, according to scripture, offenders of pure devotees (ie. Tim Lee supporting a lawsuit which blamed Prabhupada for the abuses) would suffer in such ways, not the children.

"If you are always remembering Him by your activities and seeing Krishna everywhere, even in the heart of the demonic persons, then anger will never overcome you, being purified of all false pride. But occasionally if there is good reason, ...you may have to become angry just to chastise the evil doers and blasphemers. We have seen that Lord Caitanya once nearly killed Jaghai and Madhai for their offenses to His devotee, so like that, if there is offensive behavior to the pure devotees you may become like Nrsinghadeva and punish them severely." (Prabhupada Letter Niranjan, 72-8-29)

Tim Lee: He posted in on the forums. I quoted him, he posted it here on FB forums.

Janardana Das: You completely twisted the words Tim Lee. That is not what he said

Prahlad Das: That is what scripture says about the fate of offenders like Tim.

Tim Lee: No they said the children are saying blasphemy, And blasphemers need to be placed on upraised swords, Preahlad just said that

Janardana Das: again, all of us here require some sort of proof... we know your words cannot be trusted tim.. so until you provide proof... you have lost this debate.

Tim Lee: I do not need to prove anything, Prahlad just posted that

Prahlad Das: Yes you are blasphemer against Prabhupada, implicating him in child-abuse!

Tim Lee: The children are blasphemers, and blasphmers need to be placed on upraised swords, that is what they were saying.. I said the children are commiting suicide, and I stopped that almost to nothing. So PRahlad wanted them to die

Janardana Das: I can't connect this logic..

Prahlad Das: No, you are blasphemer and scripture says you will be punished.

Tim Lee: The lawsuit stopped the suicides, ask Jvalamujki

Janardana Das: ..it's too advanced for me.. anyways, you cannot provide the letter or any proof as we ve asked you too.. so there is nothing more to discuss. All that is left now is to discuss your fate..

Tim Lee: The lawsuit stopped the suicides, and you cannot understand that suicides are bad?

Janardana Das: here we go.... tim lee logic..

Tim Lee: So you also wanted the children to die and we can report that is your opinion. Sanat and Mukunda were told that the children were commiting suicides, and that the lawsuit was stopping the suicides, and they were angry as fire, they wanted the children to die

Janardana Das: Here we go devotees, it was just a matter of time before tim's powerful connective logic began to surface.

Tim Lee: Prahlad supports that, yes, the children were commiting suicide, and Janardana did not want that to stop?

Janardana Das: Again, we need the letter.

Tim Lee: Why does Janardana want dead children?

Janardana Das: please provide it.

Tim Lee: Prahlad posted one of them, upraised swords

Prahlad Das: Not true.

Tim Lee: If I post you would not accept anyway, so go look at what he posted, he already posted on of several letters where they said the offenders need to go on swords. OK, I helped stop the suicides, and they did not want that, duh, that means they wanted dead children

Janardana Das: Actually Janardana wants peace... and to root out this divisive counterproductive mentality.. I will accept what makes sense and is provable.. not twisted logic and lies..

Tim Lee: OK so you are not answering the point, the children were commiting suicide and the lawsuit helped reduce that, are you saying you favor suicides of children? Just answer yes or no

Janardana Das: Didn't you implicate Prabhupada in the lawsuit as being an accessory? That was your lawsuit yes?. so you admit.

Tim Lee: So you wanted the suicides, yes. You wanted dead children.Yoiu admit. you are also a child chopper, you admit

Prahlad Das: What an idiot.

Janardana Das: I'm going to stop this discussion until a mature senior vaisnava comes forth to offer his expertise.

Tim Lee: Why are you a child chopper is the question then?

Janardana Das: no kidding... so pathetic.

Tim Lee: Ok so the lawsuit reduced the suicides, and you wante the suicides, its simple. Yes you wanted PRabhupada to be implicated in suicides

Prahlad Das: YOU are simple.. Simply a demonic rascal fool.

Tim Lee: You wanted his children to die

Prahlad Das: Pathetic.

Janardana Das: I really hope the mature vaisnavas of this forum are reading this and can see how pathetic Tim Lee's arguments and accusations are... his twisted logic..

Tim Lee: Anyway, you have eplained yourselves well, you wanted to have PRabhupada implicated in suicides of children. You wanted the children to die, thats all there is to it

Janardana Das: can you provide the quote where I said that?

Tim Lee: yes you just said that saving the children from suicide is twisted and wrong, that means you want them to die, that means you are a child chopper. You just admit yourself

Janardana Das: I did not say that LOL. so this is why people are not taking you seriously Tim Lee... and why you are a detriment to the ritvik community at large... I hope that I presented myself properly to all of the senior vaisnavas in this forum...and I hope we can all agree to put an end to PADA666... i mean 1008.

Tim Lee: OK, you said saving them is wrong? Saving children from dying is wrong, that makes you a person who wants dead children

Prahlad Das: Tim, we know that you severely neglected your own children.

Tim Lee: Everyone can figure that out, you want suicides, that means you want children to die. Ok so either you wanted dead children or you did not, you folks say you do, what else can I say? You wanted these children to die, thats not even nelgect, thats -- dead.

Janardana Das: It is actually very painful for me to continue this with you tim lee prabhu.... you make absolutely no sense... and are extremely offensive.. I am confident that you have exposed yourself for what I see you as..... an inside mole.

Prahlad Das: WE NEVER WANTED CHILDREN DEAD! GET IT?

Janardana Das: Prahlad it's ok... lets just wait for the mature vaisnavas to show up...and offer their opinion.

Tim Lee: Yes, you want dead children and you just admit that, you said our saving them was wrong, that means you wanted them to die, you are a child chopper yourself. Yes, you said saving them was wrong, that means you wanted them dead

Janardana Das: After all, Tim Lee could not provide any documentation where you say you support child chopping... he has been defeated.

Tim Lee: I provided it, Prahlad said put these offensive people on upraised swords, that is what they were saying about the children, they are offenders. Anyway, heh heh heh, you guys have to prove that upraised swords does not chop people up, good luck.

Janardana Das: Ladies and Gentlemen.... I give you Tim Lee, Pada1008, lets all give him a round of applause for his very powerful and intelligent debating skills.

Tim Lee: Anyway, sorry, many of the kulis were outraged at the Sanat and Mukunda program that was asking for them to be chopped up, ask them.

<At this point Chandra Shaker deleted the entire post & all of the above comments>

Chandra Shaker: I deleted that last post i dont want held responsible for causing even more fighting...sorry you can continue as you wish im taking a back seat on this topic for now. Hare Krsna.

Prahlad Das: Well done, censoring an important post with dozens of comments, wasting devotees time, and protecting a poisonous person. Well done prabhu. Good service.

Janardana Das: well they say that this is the age of "revealing"...how interesting, we all knew of tim lees character... that was obvious. Now we are learning the character... the true self of chandra shakar... I am actually shocked at this. Thankfully prahlad saved the thread which clearly shows tim lee defeated and babbling like a mad man. Is tim lee your ritvik priest guru chandra shekar prabhu? Did he give you the gayatri tape? what sort of mind control spell are you under prabhu? Sincerely cry to Prabhupada and he will guide you. I wish you well prabhu. Hare krsna. Agtsp...

Narada-kunda Dasi: "Therefore, what you have said in darkness will be heard in the daylight, and what you have whispered in private rooms will be shouted from the housetops." Luke 12: