THE HYPOCRISY OF THE GURUKULI LAWSUIT by Krishna Kirtan Dasa (2014)

So you want to address hypocrisy? Might as well. It is indeed hard to deal with hypocrisy, so perhaps I can share the following.

I remember being involved one night in an intense spontaneous debate (it was somewhat civilized but very intense) somewhere in 1997/98 in someone's apartment in Alachua, just around when the multimillion dollar lawsuit was taking off. The famous and known Minister of Education of ISKCON, Jagadish, was also present.

ABC News had just aired (or was about to air) that famous documentary on the subject, and Jagadish himself was one of the main persons interviewed in the documentary as a supporter of the lawsuit, criticizing ISKCON and putting blame not only on the organization ISKCON, but including direct blame onto Srila Prabhupada.

It was a heated debate with good points brought forward from both sides. There were many present; and it went on for quite sometime. Jagadish was present, was asked to speak, and he spoke. Pretty much the same rhetoric that was presented on the ABC documentary, heavier.

That night Jagadish himself was then trying to make a case against none other than Srila Prabhupada himself: how all the abuse was ultimately Srila Prabhupada's fault for having created such an institution where the abuse occurred, and so on. [I hope he repented some of what he said.]

Myself being so young (20 at the time), it was hard to deal with so many emotions and attention. Most were in favor of the lawsuit and others were quiet. I remember there were quite a few people present. But I do remember managing to land the following argument:

EVEN if Srila Prabhupada was guilty of anything indirectly (or directly - prove it!), most of the abuse actually occurred AFTER Srila Prabhupada departed. Well, since Jagadish was himself the Minister of Education during these after years, by pure logical reasoning he ought to take AT LEAST 50% of the responsibility for the criminal events against the children, therefore making him not eligible to even speak at all on the subject, what to speak of being the chosen one to appear on nation wide Television on prime-time to represent the case against ISKCON.

To my surprise then, when I said that he appeared shocked and he actually agreed with the logic without saying anything else, and remained quiet for the rest of the night with nothing else to say after that. It had been the first time I had actually voiced my opinion on the subject and stopped someone of that stature on his tracks.

Please kindly don't tell me about hypocrisy, Tim Lee. Remember that I am also one of those who suffered at the hands of incompetent Gurukula teachers. All I can say about myself is that I have interest in actual truth, not mixed or hypocritical presentations of the truth, and that my faith and personal protection resides only in my surrender to Lord Hari, who is the actual shelter of everyone.

Krishna Kirtan

PS. And even beyond the Jagadish hypocrisy, the very tactic used by the lawyers was to attack ISKCON as an organization. RICO. That was their platform.

Instead of suing and addressing the perpetrators of the abuse and their leaders, the whole institution was attacked instead, causing harm to the entire institution, and even to all innocent mass of devotees who are part of ISKCON, and who had nothing to do with any of it. In other words, it was a stealthy contrived plan to destroy Srila Prabhupada's legacy, person, and what he built: namely all his property, institution and everything associated with it.

Therefore the Gurukuli lawsuit was actually an attack on the entire of ISKCON and Srila Prabhupada DIRECTLY by putting blame on HIM, all craftly designed and aimed primarily at destruction. In the end it offered very little return of financial significance for any of the victims, and worse yet: did not punish any of the actual singled out perpetrators actually responsible, including Jagadish, the hypocritical public voice for the lawsuit at the time.

In sum, the lawsuit should not in any way be used as some kind of platform of victorious deeds.

(2014)

Letter from Mukunda Dasa to Windle Turley re Gurukuli Abuse Lawsuit (1999)

aka THE INFAMOUS MUKUNDA/SANAT "CHILD-CHOPPING LETTER"

For the last 20 years Tim Lee (PADA) has been repeatedly saying that Mukunda Dasa and Sanat (Sanatan Goswami Dasa) wrote a letter to Windle Turley (and others) regarding the ex-Gurukulu abuse lawsut, saying that children should be chopped up and fed to dogs, etc.. Many devotees have been asking Tim Lee to show this letter for 20 years now but he never did. Anyway, the long wait is finally over! Here is the actual letter sent to Windle-Turley by Mukunda & Sanat:

Dear Windle Turley law firm,

                                        I am writing to you in regards to the Hare Krishna Lawsuit and in particular to the following statement found under the section Plaintiffs Original Complaint:

 

37. The founder of the institution, Prabhupada, was informed in 1972, at a time when he totally controlled the institution, that extensive physical and sexual abuse of minor ISKCON children was occurring, but he concealed the wrongdoing from the public, parents and all but a handful of close advisors.

 

I would like to request you to make a public statement that His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada was in no way whatsoever the cause of any abuse to his spiritual children, and apologise for the above very offensive statement that Srila Prabhupada was covering up this abuse and thus implying that he never tried to rectify this unfortunate situation. You should take note of the following letters:

 

The important matter is that the children are taken care of nicely. Bhavananda was talking with me that in New Vrindaban students were very much neglected. Therefore they were immediately transferred to New York. Every parent wants to see that their children are taken care of very nicely. That is the first duty. If they are not healthy then how they can prosecute their education? If they are undernourished it is not good for their future activities. They must have sufficient quantity of milk and then dhal, capatis, vegetables, and a little fruit will keep them always fit. There is no need of luxurious fatty foods but milk is essential. A big building is also very good for the children's health. They can move freely and run and jump.

(Srila Prabhupada Letter: Satsvarupa 71-10-09)

 

In 1971 when Srila Prabhupada was informed of about children being neglected they were immediately transferred to a better situation in New York where they coulld be taken care of nicely. Please note how Srila Prabhupada instructs children should be taken care of.

 

In the following letter written in 1972 Srila Prabhupada replies to Bhanutanya dasi about her complaint that children in the Dallas Gurukula were sometimes mistreated:

 

  My Dear Bhanutanya dasi,

    Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter undated, and I have noted the contents with great concern. One thing is, I am very much sad to learn that you have left the company of the devotees over this incident at Gurukula school. Now you are living by yourself because you have been hurt by seeing that the children are sometimes mistreated, and because no one has taken your good advice in this connection. But you may be assured that I am always anxious about the welfare of my disciples, so that I am taking steps to rectify this unfortunate situation. Now my advice to you is to give up these feelings and return to your life of Krishna Consciousness devotional service, and if you go back to Dallas school and demonstrate to the other teachers there just the proper way to instruct and discipline the students nicely, that will be a great service. I am forwarding the copy of this letter, with your letter, to Satsvarupa for his immediately attention.
   Now the thing is, children should not be beaten at all, that I have told. They should simply be shown the stick strongly. So if one cannot manage in that way then he is not fit as teacher. If a child is trained properly in Krishna Consciousness, he will never go away. That means he must have two things, love and education. So if there is beating of child, that will be difficult for him to accept in loving spirit, and when he is old enough he may want to go away--that is the danger. So why these things are going on _ marching and chanting japa, insufficient milk, too strict enforcement of time schedules, hitting the small children? Why these things are being imposed? Why they are inventing these such new things like marching and japa like army? What can I do from such a distant place? They should run and play when they are small children, not forced to chant japa, that is not the way. So I have given you the guiding principles, it is not that I must be consulted with every small detail, that is the business of the in-charge, but if no one is there who can manage in the right way, what can I do? Now if you have got the right idea how to do it, you may go there again and take some responsible post for correcting the situation, that will be your real duty, not that there is some disagreement and I go away disgusted, no. That is not Vaisnava standard. Standard should be that, never mind there is some difficulty, my spiritual master has ordered me to do like this, now let me do it, that's all.
   Hoping this will meet you in good health.

Your ever well-wisher,
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami 

(Srila Prabhupada Letter to: Bhanutanya 18 November, 1972)

 

Please note the following statemants in particular:

 

1. But you may be assured that I am always anxious about the welfare of my disciples, so that I am taking steps to rectify this unfortunate situation.

 

2. Now my advice to you is to give up these feelings and return to your life of Krishna Consciousness devotional service, and if you go back to Dallas school and demonstrate to the other teachers there just the proper way to instruct and discipline the students nicely, that will be a great service.

 

3. Now the thing is, children should not be beaten at all, that I have told. They should simply be shown the stick strongly. So if one cannot manage in that way then he is not fit as teacher.

 

Note "That i have told" so if his so called disciples were not following his instructions which he had told to everyone who was sincere enough to care to hear, what could Srila Prabhupada do from such a distant place ?

 

4. So why these things are going on  marching and chanting japa, insufficient milk, too strict enforcement of time schedules, hitting the small children? Why these things are being imposed? Why they are inventing these such new things like marching and japa like army? What can I do from such a distant place? They should run and play when they are small children, not forced to chant japa, that is not the way. So I have given you the guiding principles, it is not that I must be consulted with every small detail, that is the business of the in-charge, but if no one is there who can manage in the right way, what can I do? 

 

Note: Srila Prabhupada had given all his disciples the guiding principles, especially to the men in charge. Now if they invent things and act out of anger like a gross materialistic demons why blame Srila Prabhupada. If no one was there to manage what can he do. It is very offensive to even suggest that Srila Prabhupada was concealing these things as if he was a conditioned soul acting with material duplicity. Please note the following quotes:

 

And Sri Baladeva Vidyabhusana has given about this arjava, "simplicity." He says that a brahmana even to a enemy will disclose all his secrets. Even to his enemy. Nobody discloses his secrets before an enemy, but a brahmana, if he, even he finds out a enemy, he will disclose all the secrets. He has no secret. Brahmana means open-minded, liberal. And the opposite word is krpana, miser.

(Srimad-Bhagavatam Lecture 1.2.27 Vrndavana, November 7, 1972)

 

Arjava means simplicity. A brahmana is not supposed to be crooked and duplicity. No. Simple. It is said even the enemy wants to know something from him, he will clearly say, "It is this." That is called simplicity. 

(Deity Installation and Initiation Lecture Melbourne, April 6, 1972)

 

Srila Prabhupada is a Maha Bhagavata, a topmost devotee far far beyond a brahmana who is a beginner in the devotion service of the Lord. So your plaintiffs complaint is offensively suggesting that Srila Prabhupada is a mundane crooked creature who doesn't even have the basic human quality of being simple and straight forward. Please act very very quickly to recify your very erroneous conclusion. If not i say onto you, not as a fanatic but on the strength of my Spiritual Masters pure words. YOUR ACTIONS WILL BE A SOURCE OF ALL CALAMITIES.

 

 Thus being advised by the demoniac ministers, Kamsa, who was from the very beginning the greatest rascal, decided to persecute the brahmanas and Vaisnavas, being entrapped by the shackles of all-devouring, eternal time. He ordered the demons to harass all kinds of saintly persons, and then he entered his house. The adherents of Kamsa were all influenced by the modes of passion as well as illusioned by the modes of ignorance, and their only business was to create enmity with saintly persons. Such activities can only reduce the duration of life. The demons accelerated the process and invited their deaths as soon as possible. The result of persecuting saintly persons is not only untimely death. The act is so offensive that the actor also gradually loses his beauty, his fame and his religious principles, and his promotion to higher planets is also checked. Driven by various kinds of mental concoctions, the demons diminish all kinds of welfare. An offense at the lotus feet of the devotees and brahmanas is a greater offense than that committed at the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Thus a godless civilization becomes the source of all calamities.

(Thus ends the Bhaktivedanta purport of the Fourth Chapter of Krsna, "Kamsa Begins His Persecutions.")

 

Respectfully submitted,

Mukunda dasa. 

 

  P.S. In regards to the offensive claim that Srila Prabhupada conclealed physical and sexual abuse of children in ISKCON from the public, parents and all but a handful of close advisors. This claim is completely proved false in Srila Prabhupada's letter that i have already pointed out to you. Here are the sections for you to again note with care:

 

Now my advice to you is to give up these feelings and return to your life of Krishna Consciousness devotional service, and if you go back to Dallas school and demonstrate to the other teachers there just the proper way to instruct and discipline the students nicely, that will be a great service.

(Srila Prabhupada Letter to: Bhanutanya 18 November, 1972)

 

Srila Prabhupada's advice to Bhanutanya dasi is to return to Dallas school demonstrate to the other teachers there just the proper way to instruct and discipline the students nicely. So where is there a question of concealing:

 

Now if you have got the right idea how to do it, you may go there again and take some responsible post for correcting the situation, that will be your real duty, not that there is some disagreement and I go away disgusted, no.

(Srila Prabhupada Letter to: Bhanutanya 18 November, 1972)

 

She has just being instructed by her Spiritual Master to go and sort things out on his behalf. So she was given full authority so go there, take some responsible post and as his representative REPEAT AND PRACTICALLY APPLY HIS INSTRUCTIONS and thus rectify the situation.

 

Again for your careful consideration are those instructions given by Srila Prabhupada to his representative Bhanutanya dasi in 1972:

 

Now the thing is, children should not be beaten at all, that I have told. They should simply be shown the stick strongly. So if one cannot manage in that way then he is not fit as teacher. If a child is trained properly in Krishna Consciousness, he will never go away. That means he must have two things, love and education. So if there is beating of child, that will be difficult for him to accept in loving spirit, and when he is old enough he may want to go away--that is the danger. So why these things are going on _ marching and chanting japa, insufficient milk, too strict enforcement of time schedules, hitting the small children? Why these things are being imposed? Why they are inventing these such new things like marching and japa like army? What can I do from such a distant place? They should run and play when they are small children, not forced to chant japa, that is not the way.

(Srila Prabhupada Letter to: Bhanutanya 18 November, 1972)

Another Srila Prabhupada letter from 1972, again clearly showing his great concern for the children at Dallas Gurukula:

 

My Dear Mohanananda,
   Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge your letter dated November 22, 1972, and I have noted the contents with great care. I am very, very glad to hear of your desire to return to Gurukula school and apply yourself to developing that place. I am so glad to hear this good news. Only a few weeks back I had got a letter from Satsvarupa wherein he has informed me that Stoka Krishna has left Dallas and that he must go there to take charge himself. But he is sannyasi and he should travel and preach, and he has not much taste for watching after so many things. So I had suggested him to get a full-time manager, some grhastha, nice husband and wife together, to manage the things, and that he shall expect that such person will stay tightly and develop it and make that his life work. It is the most important preaching work, to train our children in Krishna Consciousness education of life. And I think that you are just the right man to do it. Krishna has given you the right idea, just see! I was also at Dallas school last summer and I was very much impressed with these children, how nicely they are becoming preachers and kirtana men and girls. If we can develop properly, one day they will turn the world by their preaching. Let the small children from all good families in your country come to our Gurukula school and take education from us. They may be certain their children will get the real knowledge which will create the best citizens of brahminical type, clean, honest, law-abiding, healthy, industrious, all good qualities they will have. Now I think Krishna has inspired you in this way, and every facility is there, you are the pioneer in Dallas and you know how to do everything nicely, that I know, so now you go there immediately after consulting with Satsvarupa and Karandhara and Madhudvisa and the others, take their advice and do the needful. If you become Head Master of the Gurukula that is more important than going to South America. This is the most important post in pushing on this movement, practically, because you shall create our preachers of the future, many, many of them. That will be your great credit and contribution. May Krishna give you His all blessings more and more for this task.
   If you still like to contact Hanuman, he is having some difficulty with the governments in these places, but I have just got on letter from him the following address: c.o Agencia Wallis C. A. Edificio Karam, Avenida Urdmeta, P. O. Box 1826, Caracas, Venezuela. But I think it is better if he takes some brahmacaris and sannyasis with him for travelling in such difficult and dangerous places. You are manager with best experience, and besides you have got wife and child to protect, so it will be very much pleasing to me if you shall take up the big work of Gurukula school and develop it very nicely. Thank you for helping me in this way.
   Hope this meets you in good health. 

Your ever well-wisher,
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

  (Srila Prabhupada Letter to: Mohanananda Ahmedabad 11 December, 1972)

Interview with Prahlad Das

Prahlad Das responds to Tim Lee's false statements about himself and other Prabhupadanugas.

Basically, in 1997-99 Sanat and Mukunda were objecting to the blaming of Srila Prabhupada (for the gurukuli abuse) in the Windle-Turley lawsuit. So Tim Lee decided to demonize them and label them as "child-choppers" which he has done for the last 20 years.

In 2013 Prahlad Das also objected, so Tim Lee has labelled him as "a child-eating demon" for the last 6 years. This is all to distract from the fact that the actual purpose of Tim Lee and Pratyatosa's lawsuit was to defame Prabhupada, having him be recorded forever in legal history as the complicit leader of a child abuse cult, thus enabling the abusers to go on with their abuses with no fear of future legal proceedings or punishment.

INTERVIEW LINK:

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Puranjana Supports Defamation of Srila Prabhupada:
http://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/pada_defamation.html

PRATYATOSA DASA: 
"I'm convinced that if it weren't for the way in which Puranjana (Tim Lee) presented the relevant facts to the high powered lawyer, Windle Turley, the child abuse lawsuit, which reduced the number of gurukuli suicides almost to nil, would have never gotten off the ground. Therefore, I will be forever grateful to him for that reason alone." Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa (19/12/10)

Tim Lee (PADA1008): 
"I did not really "put together" the court case all myself. Pratyatosa contacted Turley and he agreed to take the case. I then helped by recruiting victims to sign up, altogether about 2,000 wanted to sign up. Turley wanted $1,000,000 for each victim so he cut it down to 500 thinking ISKCON could not pay $200M.."

JANMASTAMI SINKOWSKI:"..Those molested who took the lawsuit settlement money signed non-disclosure agreements,promising to repay all they took if they disclose the complaints they made. of the 706 filing, only 6 of us refused the settlement money and are still free to discuss such topics, without possible financial repercussions.."

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Tim Lee (PADA1008):
"Interesting that Prahlad said the only result of the lawsuit was that innocent people were going to have to pay a lot of money. OK people who are supporting a sexual predator school program are not innocent.."

PRAHLAD DAS:
"No. The other results of the Pratyatosa / Tim Lee / Windle Turdley 'prabhupada defamation' lawsuit were that many non-abusive, regular devotees were cast onto the streets as temples were closed to pay the $400.0000. Thanks to Tim and Pratyatosa, the actual abusers got off free and still control iskCON. Bhavananda is currently involved with the TOVP Mayapur project. This lawsuit ensured that they will not be prosecuted in the future as the abuse in iskCON continues. Don't the ex-Gurukulis want to see them brought to justice? The grown-up Gurukulis got paid off for their support of the defamation of Prabhupada as the controller of a child-abuse cult, while letting the actual abusers walk free. I hope they think it was worth it."

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PRAHLAD DAS:
 "I find it rather ironic (and sickening) that self-proclaimed "saviour of the children" Tim Lee (PADA/Puranjana) is a good friend and supporter of convicted child-abuser Tattva Darshan. After Tattva's release from prison he was given shelter at iskCON Bangalore by Madhu Pandit where he was allowed to give classes. He is now back in India running his child-abuse project disguised as a Krishna School. The locals call it "the American Fu*k House". Child-Saviour Tim seems to have forgotten to mention any of this. It would appear that he thinks it is more important to spend all his time demonising others for the unforgivable crime of standing up for Srila Prabhupada."

LINK: Tim Lee (Puranjana) supports convicted child-abuser

Tattva Darshan's ongoing child abuse project in Karnataka, supported by Tim Lee, Mahasringa and others. LINK:BEV Village School

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Hear how Srila Prabhupada ordered the Gurukul to be closed as soon as he heard of abuse:

Prabhupada - Hitler

UPDATE 15/11/17

Mukunda Das: "I Love Hitler. Closest person we had to a Vedic King...
We should always respect and honour Adolf Hitler. We should give all glories to Adolf Hitler... We should recognise who Adolf Hitler is and offer him all respect and all worship to Adolf Hitler."

 Since the below article was posted Mukunda Das has made dozens of YouTube videos with titles such as "Hitler Predicted The Coming Of Prabhupada", "Hitler & The Waffen SS Protected Caitanya's Sankirtana Movement In It's Embryotic Form" and "Prabhupada Calls For Hitler's Warrior Spirit To Save The World" which only serve to POISON Prabhupada's reputation by repeatedly associating him with Hitler, one of the most hated men in recent history. Why would he do this?

First, Prabhupada's BODY was poisoned, then his BOOKS were poisoned (book-changes), and now Mukunda Das is desperately trying to poison his REPUTATION, so no one will even want to hear him or read his un-changed books. Is this service to Prabhupada? or service to the ADL and other servants of Kali who want to disrupt Prabhupada's mission?

At the time of writing, Mukunda's YouTube channel has 4,966 subscribers, so every time he posts a new Prabhupada+Hitler video all of them will at least see the Hitler/Prabhupada title and thumbnail even if they don't watch the video. And there are all the Prabhupada-Hitler videos in the side-bar. People searching for Hitler videos will see Prabhupada and vice-versa. Many thousands are seeing these and It has cumulative subliminal effect which will make people link Prabhupada to Hitler which will also give ADL an excuse to demonise and censor Srila Prabhupada on the grounds of "anti-semitism" and "holocaust-denial" which is illegal in Germany and other countries. Guilt by association.

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ISKCON Bangalore's spokesman & attack-dog Tim (Puranjana/PADA/krishna1008) Lee's latest absurd LIE is that I am also a promoter, supporter and “jackboot-licker” of Adolf Hitler on FaceBook - even though I have spent the last 3 years speaking against devotees on FB who selectively quote Srila Prabhupada to make him look like a Hitler-loving, jew-hating, heartless bigot, just to add weight to their own materialistic, political views. These ‘devotees’ then attack me (and/or block me) for posting like this:

Prahlad Das>> “Prabhupada said that maybe Hitler did not kill as many Jews as the allies said he did. He did not say he did not kill any Jews (or other groups). He said Hitler was not so bad man (as the allies said he was) ONLY because he did not use nuclear weapons whereas the allies did (in Japan). NOWHERE DOES PRABHUPADA SAY THAT HIS INITIATED DISCIPLES SHOULD SPEND THEIR TIME PRAISING MATERIALISTIC RASCALS LIKE HITLER IN PUBLIC!

Srila Prabhupada: “Regarding Hitler, so Hitler may be good man or bad man, so what does he help to our Krishna Consciousness movement? But it is a fact that much propaganda was made against him, that much I know, and the Britishers are first-class propagandists. And I have heard that his officers did everything without informing him, just like in our ISKCON there are so many false things: “Prabhupada said this, Prabhupada said that.” But we have nothing to do with Hitler in our Krishna Consciousness. Do not be deviated by such ideas.” (Letter to Krsnadasa. Vrindaban. 72-11-07)

Why can’t these Hitler-promoting “devotees” accept this clear instruction from their own Guru? Instead they only make Prabhupada and his followers look like Hitler-loving, fanatical ‘Neo-Nazi’ clowns (all in public). It appears that their love of Hitler is stronger than their love of Srila Prabhupada. Such a shame.

Maybe they should start another Hare Krishna apa-sampradaya?
ISHCON -- The International Society for Hitler Consciousness (aka ‘The Hitleranugas’) ?

And this is the inevitable result of their “preaching”. (Taken from one of Mukunda Dasa’s 100’s of pro-Hitler FB posts):

Jose Rocha>> “I don’t believe S Prabhupada once told Hitler was a good man and also that he did not believe in the concentration camps! These camps were real and the evil on earth! If this is true, I shall leave S Prabhupada right away! HK!”

Just see the nice seva these so-called Vaisnavas are doing for Srila Prabhupada and Lord Chaitanya’s Sankirtan mission!

Here are some examples of what Mukunda Dasa and others are spamming Prabhupada and Hare Krishna FB groups with:

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Prabhupada quotes regarding Hitler

To the atheists who are guided by the animal qualities of passion and ignorance, physically powerful men like... Ravana, Meghnad, Jarasandha, Hitler, Mussolini, etc. are considered as Mahajans. (Srila Prabhupada)

The whole history of the world, you just study, is a history of sense gratification. Just take, for example, some twenty years ago one Mr. Adolf Hitler came in the scene, and there was great upheaval as war in Europe and America. From 1933 to 1947 or something like that, the whole world was in trouble. But he is gone, finished. And what did he do? Sense gratification, that's all. (Bhagavad-gita Lecture 3.6-10. Los Angeles. 68-12-23)


There is no human being. A big... I gave that a big animal, lion, is fearful to the small animal. But because he is lion, very strong, does it mean that he's a human being? That is going on. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). If one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's nothing but animal. So if other small animals praise him, "Oh, you are..." This Gandhi or Indira Gandhi or, and the Hitler and... What is the value? He's a big animal, that's all. (Morning Walk- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura)
No, the greater power is Krsna. If you take shelter of Krsna, they cannot do anything. Just like Prahlada Maharaja, he was a five years old boy. He took shelter of Krsna and his father was a great demon, very powerful. He wanted to chastise his boy. He could not. This is the proof. So you take shelter. Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja, aham tvam sarva-pape... [Bg. 18.66]. "I give you protection." So people have no faith although He's God. He thinks God is less powerful than Hitler. That is his nonsense. If he takes actually shelter of Krsna, what this rascal, Hitler, can do? But he has no faith in God. He thinks Prabhu Hitler is greater than Lord. Prabhu Hitler. That is the difference between the crows and the swans. The crows think that we have got food in the garbage. And the swans think that we have got food in nice garden, in the clear water. And that is difference even in the birds kingdom."
(Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist. Stockholm. 73-09-10)

Just like in your Western countries there was Napoleon, there was Hitler, there was Mussolini, here also, big, big leaders, but what they are? Big, big servants of the senses, that's all. Big, big servants of the senses. Therefore Bhāgavata has said, sva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). Puruṣaḥ paśuḥ: "These big, big leaders are big, big animals, that's all." Saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. So there are many instructive verses in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Therefore Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam should be your life and soul to remain constantly in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, yes, the unique gift of Śrī Vyāsadeva.
(Lecture SB 07.09.40 MAYAPUR - March 18, 1976)

The crowlike birds or crowlike men or karmīs, they're envious. You'll find. And even, without any offense... Just like dog: You pass on. Without any offense, he'll bark, "Ow, ow, ow, ow." (laughter) You have no offense. You have no offense, but it will try to pick up some quarrel with you. Sometime it will come to bite you unless you have got sufficient stick to show. (laughter) So, similar... There are dogs and cats and hogs. There are similar men also. They will simply pick up quarrel unnecessarily. Sometimes political leaders... Just like in Europe, Hitler unnecessarily picked up some war, and there was devastation all over the world. You see. There was no gain. The Germany become defeated and bifurcated. So this leader could not do anything good to the nation, but unnecessarily picked up some quarrel. So that is the cause of world trouble, the crowlike men, the doglike men, the hoglike men. So we have to create paramahaṁsas, good men. Then you can expect peace and prosperity. If you create cats and dogs, then how can you expect that there will be peace, there will be no war, there will be no disturbance? (Lecture on SB 6.1.19 -- Los Angeles, January 15, 1970)

So asura, to kill the asuras, however powerful they may be... We have seen. There were so many asuras in this world. There were Lenin, there were Stalin, there were Hitler, there were Hiraṇyakaśipu. So many. But they could not survive. It is not possible. They'll be finished. So asuras, to kill him... Paritrāṇāya sādhūn..., vināśāya...(BG 4.8) To kill the duṣkṛtām, these asuras, Kṛṣṇa does not require to come. He comes only to give protection and pleasure to the devotees. That is his aim."
(Lecture on SB 1.8.20 -- Mayapura, September 30, 1974)

An example can help us to understand the inconceivable potency of the Supreme Lord. In the recent history of warfare the Supreme Personality of Godhead created a Hitler and, before that, a Napoleon Bonaparte, and they each killed many living entities in war. But in the end Bonaparte and Hitler were also killed. People are still very much interested in writing and reading books about Hitler and Bonaparte and how they killed so many people in war. Year after year many books are published for public reading regarding Hitler's killing thousands of Jews in confinement. But no one is researching who killed Hitler and who created such a gigantic killer of human beings. The devotees of the Lord are not much interested in the study of the flickering history of the world. They are interested only in Him who is the original creator, maintainer and annihilator. That is the purpose of the Krsna consciousness movement.
(Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.11.9 Purport)

..defect of the modern politicians. Here at the present moment, their philosophy is that one must be very cunning diplomat, then he's successful politician. This is their philosophy. The most crooked man, like Cāṇakya. But our philosophy is that the political head should be like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, Lord Rāmacandra. That is difference. Here Churchill or Hitler or similar man, crooked man... Without being crooked one cannot become politician. Lloyd George, the British Prime Minister, he said that "Consistency in politics is the qualification of an ass." Consistency. You must change. ()

Disciple: Nietzsche believed that everyone has a “will to power,” but that the weak seek power vainly. For instance, in his will to power, Hitler sought to subjugate as much of the world as possible, but he was ultimately unsuccessful, and he brought disaster upon himself and Germany. Instead of trying to conquer himself, he attempted to conquer others, and this is the will to power misdirected or misinterpreted.
Srila Prabhupada: Men like Hitler are not able to control the force of anger. A king or national leader has to use anger properly. Narottama Dasa Thakura says that we should control our powers and apply them in the proper cases. We may become angry, but our anger must be controlled.
(Beyond Illusion and Doubt. 12. Nietzsche)

Prabhupada: Well, foolish men cannot accept any logic. Their logic is stick. "If you don't accept, I shall kick on your face. Accept it." That is the... That is wanted.
Karandhara: Like the example when Hitler killed the Jews. They will say, "Well, what should we do, just let Hitler go on killing the Jews because the Jews were sinful? Or should we try and stop Hitler?"
Prabhupada: Well, Hitler was imperfect and everything was imperfect. That you cannot compare Hitler's action with God's action. God is all-perfect. That is first proposition. God is all-perfect.
(Morning Walk. Los Angeles 73-12-16)

Just like in the history of the world there were so many big, big men - Hitler, Napoleon, this Churchill, Gandhi, Nehru. But all their powers, position, in one minute it becomes vanquished. There is no question... They are so proud, they do not believe in God, but when the death comes, they cannot argue anything. The death orders, "Immediately vacate"—finished. You have to vacate. At that time their power, opulence, position—nothing can help. So Kṛṣṇa says, therefore... The atheist class of men who do not believe in God, decry the authority of God, for them... Of course, everyone dies, but for them, mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34): Kṛṣṇa comes as death and takes away everything in their possession. But foolish persons, they do not see, still. God says, Kṛṣṇa says, that "This death I am." Still they'll not. And it is a fact. When Kṛṣṇa comes as death, as Hiraṇyakaśipu... He was atheist, did not believe in God, but when God, Nṛsiṁha-deva came, then he was vanquished, everything, within a second. Nirastaḥ. Sa tu te nirastaḥ.
(Lecture SB 07.09.23 Mayapur- March 01, 1976)

Prabhupada: Is that rational, that another living entity like me should be killed for my benefit, for satisfying my tongue?
Syämasundara: Their idea is that the animal is not in the same category as myself because it has no...
Prabhupäda: So that's alright; then might is right? Hitler is right? When Hitler, Hitler kills the Jews, he's right? He thinks that they are not in my category.
Syämasundara: The animal cannot understand philosophy.
Prabhupäda: What does he understand of philosophy? He is mad; he is less than an animal. He does not understand philosophy. He does not know that the animal has also a soul, the animal has also life. Then he should be killed first.
(Dialectical Spirtualism - Hegel)

This nationalism, this nationalism also the same mistake, but they are fighting so much. Great, great, big, big men. In this country, Napoleon fought. In Germany, Hitler fought. And so many others, in our country Gandhi fought. But he is in ignorance. All these big big leaders, they are ignorance, andha, blind. Blind. They do not know that he is not this body and neither this land belongs to him. But they fight. The whole history of the world means this mistaken idea. "I" and "mine." Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, yat taj jñānam. Kṣetra-kṣetrajñayor yat taj-jñānaṁ mataṁ mama. Kṛṣṇa is giving, that one should know what he is and one should know what is his body, then he is in knowledge. The matter cannot understand this. The dogs, cats, cannot understand this. But a human being can understand this. Bhagavad-gītā is meant for the human being, not for the cats and dogs. Therefore, the human society should take care of this knowledge. Then his life will be successful.(Lecture on BG 13.3 -- Paris, August 11, 1973)

But now, in modern times, Ravana's dynasty has multiplied into millions. This has given rise to many different opinions, which have made the demons inimical toward one another. Thus they are all competing tooth and nail, trying to kidnap the goddess of fortune, Sita-devi. Each one is thinking, "I am the most cunning, and so I will enjoy Sita-devi all by myself." But like Ravana, all these demons, along with their entire families, are being destroyed. So many powerful leaders like Hitler have come, but enamoured by the illusion of enjoying and exploiting the Supreme Lord's energy and consort—Sita-devi, the goddess of fortune—all of them have been thwarted and crushed in the past, are being thwarted and crushed in the present, and will be thwarted and crushed in the future. The root cause of the aforementioned lament—"In the dispensation of providence, mankind cannot have any rest"—is this demoniac mentality of exploiting and enjoying the Lord's divine energy.
(RTW 1.2 The Cause of Suffering)

Now we have got our great personalities, leaders. They are praised, eulogized, our, these political leaders. "Our Hitler," "Our Gandhi," "Our Churchill," "Our Nixon." But sastra says these leaders, those who are not spiritual leaders, those who cannot give our life, they are worshiped by these classes of animals, animals. These so-called leaders, politicians, they are eulogized very much by whom? By these class of men: dogs, camels, asses and.. (Srila Prabhupada)Such questions as yours: why there is so-called discrepancy between the views of Bhagavat and modern scientists regarding the moon and other planets, and whether Hitler is good or bad man, these are most insignificant matters, and for anyone who is sincerely convinced that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for him these questions do not arise.. [..] Regarding Hitler, so Hitler may be good man or bad man, so what does he help to our Krishna Consciousness movement? But it is a fact that much propaganda was made against him, that much I know, and the Britishers are first-class propagandists. And I have heard that his officers did everything without informing him, just like in our ISKCON there are so many false things: "Prabhupada said this, Prabhupada said that.'' But WE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH HITLER IN OUR KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS. DO NOT BE DEVIATED BY SUCH IDEAS. Jnanam jneyam jnana-gamyam,'' (ibid), Krishna is knowledge, He is the object of knowledge, He is the goal of knowledge.
(Letter to Krsnadasa. Vrindaban. 72-11-07)

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PADA: 'Prahlad is a Child-Eating Demon' !!!

PADA (Tim Lee / Puranjana / krishna1008):

As soon as someone says, we need to follow the directives of Srila Prabhupada, then the GBC, Prahlad types, the Jaipur For Truth (HKC), they all say in unison "this must be stopped"! That makes them servants of the GBC, who also wants this process stopped. Why do they always want to stop the worship of the pure devotee, and attack anyone who is worshiping the pure devotee?.. Why do the Jaipur for Truth folks openly oppose making Srila Prabhupada the giver of initiations and his being the focus of the initiates, and they want to torpedo anyone doing that?.. Right, as soon as someone says Srila Prabhupada is the person we need to have faith in, then the Jaipur for Truth people say -- attack, attack, attack...

Well there is it, Vyasa pooja for Srila Prabhupada is something we need to have stopped, and the JFT folks are helping the GBC and Rocana do that... Oh heaven's no, we cannot go back to pre-1977 where Srila Prabhupada is the current acharya! That has to be stopped, and the GBC and their dedicated pals at JFT people are out to stop it... GBC and their servants at JFT are mis-directing everyone to cause confusion, as they have all along since 1978.

Janardana Das:

What is Puranjana Dasa (Tim Lee) talking about? He has zero basis, its’ 100% distortion and lies. Did he even acknowledge the fact that Hare Krishna Community devotees have been the target of attacks and harassment at all? He took HKC’s sincere complaints against Akshaya Patra devotees and the terror they have been causing and reversed them, completely flipped the actual truth of the matter to point the blame towards HKC as the instigators. You can easily read through poor Tim’s rhetoric and see his bias towards Bangalore. He is not impartial whatsoever. I would imagine he gets some sort of compensation for his propaganda666 blog, from Bangalore/Yasodanandana.

An impartial eye is crucial on this issue, unfortunately most devotees have taken shelter in Bangalore because “they are the only ones doing anything”, which is not true, they are the most well funded undoubtedly. Jaipur HKC is doing awesome preaching in the name of Prabhupada and there are also other small time temples/homes or farms that are also working sincerely towards Prabhupadas mission. Bangalore is trying to OWN the term “Prabhupadanuga” and make a central power under their control/agenda, using their GBC. This is clearly Machiavellian/demoniac tactics as Srila Prabhupada wanted every temple to be independent and locally governed/run. This is why Jaipur HKC devotees and ANY OTHER sincere devotees who want a Prabhupadanuga program apart from the control mechanisms of Bangalore are in danger and facing these aggressions. I feel this is a very important issue at this point, that for too long has gone unnoticed and unchecked.. Jiv Jago..

Prahlad Das:

Tim Lee (Puranjana/PADA/krishna1008) is #1 hypocrite as it is he who is doing all the personal attacks and mud-slinging. This is all he has done for 30+ years. He (and his little gang of bad-mannered, low-intelligence followers) are the reason why the Prabhupadanuga ‘ritviks’ are seen as offensive, fanatical, crazy, liars, etc.. His job is to defame the real Prabhupadanugas (except IB/AP Corporation) and cause fighting between them. He is paid-up cheerleader of ISKCON Bangalore and acts under the orders of Yasodanandana (IB’s ‘Western advisor’ & GBC). He likes to take the credit for the services of others, then demonises those devotees. He is seen, and promoted, by many 'ritvik' devotees who think he is some kind of leader of the Prabhupadanugas, but he is only a wolf in sheep’s clothing. They have fallen for his decades of lies and distortions. He is not even a devotee.

Now he is attacking, demonising & offending the genuine, sincere Prabhupadanugas from HKC Jaipur. He has gone too far. The worldwide Prabhupadanugas should demand that he and Madhu Pandit will stop their un-Vaisnava and low-class behaviour towards those who are sincerely trying to push on Prabhupada’s mission and strictly follow all of his instructions. They should meet for Istaghosti and resolve these issues, but so far they have only set their attack dog (Puranjana) on anybody who disagrees with them in any way. What kind of ‘devotees’ will continue to behave like this?

PADA (Tim Lee / Puranjana / krishna1008):

Right, as soon as we said (A) there was no guru appointment, (B) children are being abused, (C) books are being changed, (D) Srila Prabhupada is being poisoned etc., then the GBC and their agents like Prahlad called us "mud-slinging" -- for 30+ years. Sorry, we were and are right on all these issues. 

Notice, anyone who says child abuse is bad is -- mud slinging. Anyone who says homosexual pedophiles are not messiahs is "speaking mud for 30+ years." OK, so that means Prahlad wants the deviants to be his worshiped messiahs, and no one should object? That is how these people kept the child molesting going on for such a long time, they chopped the legs off our protest by calling us mud slingers, instead of saying, wow, we have to join PADA and STOP this child abuse. Right, anyone who objects to deviants posing as messiahs is slinging mud, this is how Prahlad and his GBC got Sulochana killed, hundreds of children molested, and so on and so forth. The GBC / Prahlad group demonizes anyone who protests the molester messiahs, and this gets us people killed. 

What will be the result of protecting and defending child abuse by saying anyone who protests is slinging mud? The abuse will continue, plain and simple. Prahlad thinks we should not object to child abuse, because its simply slinging mud. OK its very clear, he is defending the perverts and abusers by saying we should not criticize them. That is because, rather self evidently, he is with the perverts, he loves them so much so that he is infuriated with our exposing his favorite program. Anyone who resists child abuse is a mud slinger, ok, he is in favor of the child abusers.

If anyone who objects to homosexuals and pedophiles is slinging mud, that self-evidently means Prahlad loves the pedophiles process. This is basically what happened post -1977, anyone who was against child abuse was a mud slinging demon. And that is what not only the bogus GBC folks said, but the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad team said, our objecting to child abuse is "mud slinging." Anyone who says children need to be protected is -- slinging mud? That apparently means, they think child abuse is good and normal, because anyone who objects "slings mud," ok they seem to think child molesting is wonderful and good, and protesting child abuse is mud. That is how these thinkers protected that program all along. And now, they are proud that so many were victimized because they shot down our protest as "mud"? And got some of us killed?

Calling us names is how the GBC / Prahlad types promoted and protected the child molester program in the first place. And this is amazing, they are actually proud so many children were abused, because still think that anyone who objected to the child abuse program was slinging mud, because quite self-evidently, they love the child abuse program. 

What amazes us is -- that after it has been proven that there was a big problem here, and we were right to complain about it, the defenders of the child abuse program are still angry that -- we exposed this program. In sum, they are in love with the child abuse program. Even Wyatt says, oh this is all PADA's lies. Nope, hundreds of witnesses submitted legal affadavits that we are right on this issue. We wish it was "all lies" (more folks have provided more details to us recently to verify these problems).

And so the GBC and their barking dog Prahlad are angry we exposed this abuse issue, instead of being happy that in 1997 we helped get hundreds of kids pulled out of these abusive schools, as happened after 1997 when we went after this program. Prahlad apparently wanted these hundreds of kids to stay in the schools and the status quo of the molester messiah's program to continue, because he is with them saying this is all mud slinging. Our stopping that anti-children program is simply mud, that is all Krishna's dear children are to these people, a pile of mud. Children are simply meat on a hook to be exploited for these people. Damn good thing we exposed them and objected, and got these hundreds of kids pulled out! We for sure did the right thing to save hundreds of children from the child-eating demon Prahlad's group!

Prahlad says our saving these children's lives is simply mud, he thinks children are simply mud to be crushed down to dust. Children are simply piles of mud and dirt for these people, as one of the ex-children to us "we were simply a piece of meat to be passed around." And Prahlad is with that group because he is angry we exposed this, and saved kids from his meat hooks program. Every time we say there was a child molesting problem, Prahlad is saying that is mud slinging, these children are piles of mud to be exploited, ok very obvious, he loves the child abuser program. The HKC had better write something to distance themselves from this ideology, because Prahlad is acting as their spokesman.

Some GBC goondas and their hero Prahlad say the words of the pure devotee are ALSO all mud, and we are bad for promoting all these materials. In sum, Prahlad is just like many of the GBC, he is infuriated we published these materials. Notice, for many of the bogus GBC and their supporters like Prahlad, the words of the pure devotee are "mud," and children are even worse mud, everything that is important to Srila Prabhupada (his children and his words) is all mud for these people, because it exposes their real program to exploit children and these words.  

Thus! These people are infuriated that we are getting out the words of the pure devotee. In other words, people like Prahad love bogus appointed gurus, love child molesters. love book changers, and of course love poisoners of pure devotees, because as soon as anyone objects to these vile actions of these crooks -- the bogus sectors of the GBC and their attack dog Prahlad attack the people who object. That means they want the criminals to win, because Prahlad is joining hands with the bogus parts of the GBC to attack anyone who exposes these crimes.

This is why these crimes have been going on, because the lovers of the criminals are infuriated that we are attacking their criminal operations. The bogus parts of the GBC wanted to have us killed, and recently Prahlad said he is working with some deviant GBC goons to get us killed. In other words, anyone who publishes Srila Prabhupada's materials is distributing mud. As Sulochana used to say, people like Prahlad are boot lickers for the deviant gurus. As soon as we expose these problems, we are slinging mud, and that defends the evil doers.

Yes the bogus GBC / Prahlad das / HKC  puzzle is all finally all fitting together. You got it! You are correct, the bogus GBC, Dayalu nitai, HKC, Prahlad group -- are ALL stomping their jack boots in unison, saying that we ALL have to accept the GBC's homosexual pedophile acharyas program -- because the Dayarama courts accept and endorse that program, and ruled in favor of that process. Yes, they ARE ALL saying child molester messiahs programs are authorized, if the courts approve of that program. I would not say what you are, that they have dog's turds for brains, its actually worse than that, they are deviants. Its not a question of loss of intelligence, they support deviations. Even people with "dog turds for brains" do not support pedophile messiah programs, even the most ignorant people have way more sense than this, they do not support such deviations. We have reviewed a number of letters from these Prahlad / HKC people -- and they all say they agree that the Dayarama pedophile guru's process is bona fide -- since the courts approve and support that program and its leaders.

Yep! They ALL agree and say that homosexual pedophile guru programs are bona fide "if  the courts approve" such programs. They have lost all connection to Srila Prabhupada, or never had any in the first place. Yep, you are also correct, the same bogus GBC / HKC / Prahlad "bona fide courts" also "approve" abortion, female baby-cide, meat eating, alcohol, drugs, pornography, tossing baby chicks into meat grinders -- and only Yamaraja knows the list of what else their wonderful courts are approving. They accept as bona fide authority the courts that approve all this, and bogus GBC / HKC / Prahlad are infuriated we exposed their pedophile messiahs program because they are ALL in support of the Dayarama courts.

In sum, they ALL accept not only secular courts, but they ALL accept the authority of pedophile messiah programs if these bogus courts support such programs. Yes, they ALL agree with the courts who approve of pedophile messiahs programs, as Sulochan used to say, "birds of a feather flop together." Yes, secular authority is bogus for all the reasons stated above. Yes, these people are collectively trying to destroy the Hare Krishna religion, we agree.

Prahlad says anyone who publishes Srila Prabhupada's materials is slinging mud. Prahlad says anyone who exposes child molesters and saves hundred of children by getting them pulled out, is slinging mud. Prahlad says anyone who helps a lawsuit to get original books is slinging mud because these books are all mud. Prahlad says anyone who exposes Srila Prabhupada being poisoned is slinging mud, because he loves Judas. Thats its. HKC, you better take notice of all this.

http://krishna1008.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/prahlad-writes-pada-update.html

Prahlad Das:

BUT... I'm not saying ANY of those things... NEVER have... NEVER will... Neither are any of the devotees of HKC Jaipur!
I am NOT 'GBC' or 'authority' for any group or person anywhere!
I've been a strict Vegetarian for 30+ years, so NO CHILD-EATING either!

PS - The only devotees using & accepting the authority of the "Jesus-killing", "abortion-approving" demoniac courts (and paying them millions!) are bogus GBC ISKCON and ISKCON Bangalore... And Tim himself of course, when he was happy to use the court to blame Prabhupada for the child-abuse in his & Pratyatosa's Windle-Turley lawsuit.

Puranjana dragged to Hell by Yamadutas (Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4)