THE HYPOCRISY OF THE GURUKULI LAWSUIT by Krishna Kirtan Dasa (2014)

So you want to address hypocrisy? Might as well. It is indeed hard to deal with hypocrisy, so perhaps I can share the following.

I remember being involved one night in an intense spontaneous debate (it was somewhat civilized but very intense) somewhere in 1997/98 in someone's apartment in Alachua, just around when the multimillion dollar lawsuit was taking off. The famous and known Minister of Education of ISKCON, Jagadish, was also present.

ABC News had just aired (or was about to air) that famous documentary on the subject, and Jagadish himself was one of the main persons interviewed in the documentary as a supporter of the lawsuit, criticizing ISKCON and putting blame not only on the organization ISKCON, but including direct blame onto Srila Prabhupada.

It was a heated debate with good points brought forward from both sides. There were many present; and it went on for quite sometime. Jagadish was present, was asked to speak, and he spoke. Pretty much the same rhetoric that was presented on the ABC documentary, heavier.

That night Jagadish himself was then trying to make a case against none other than Srila Prabhupada himself: how all the abuse was ultimately Srila Prabhupada's fault for having created such an institution where the abuse occurred, and so on. [I hope he repented some of what he said.]

Myself being so young (20 at the time), it was hard to deal with so many emotions and attention. Most were in favor of the lawsuit and others were quiet. I remember there were quite a few people present. But I do remember managing to land the following argument:

EVEN if Srila Prabhupada was guilty of anything indirectly (or directly - prove it!), most of the abuse actually occurred AFTER Srila Prabhupada departed. Well, since Jagadish was himself the Minister of Education during these after years, by pure logical reasoning he ought to take AT LEAST 50% of the responsibility for the criminal events against the children, therefore making him not eligible to even speak at all on the subject, what to speak of being the chosen one to appear on nation wide Television on prime-time to represent the case against ISKCON.

To my surprise then, when I said that he appeared shocked and he actually agreed with the logic without saying anything else, and remained quiet for the rest of the night with nothing else to say after that. It had been the first time I had actually voiced my opinion on the subject and stopped someone of that stature on his tracks.

Please kindly don't tell me about hypocrisy, Tim Lee. Remember that I am also one of those who suffered at the hands of incompetent Gurukula teachers. All I can say about myself is that I have interest in actual truth, not mixed or hypocritical presentations of the truth, and that my faith and personal protection resides only in my surrender to Lord Hari, who is the actual shelter of everyone.

Krishna Kirtan

PS. And even beyond the Jagadish hypocrisy, the very tactic used by the lawyers was to attack ISKCON as an organization. RICO. That was their platform.

Instead of suing and addressing the perpetrators of the abuse and their leaders, the whole institution was attacked instead, causing harm to the entire institution, and even to all innocent mass of devotees who are part of ISKCON, and who had nothing to do with any of it. In other words, it was a stealthy contrived plan to destroy Srila Prabhupada's legacy, person, and what he built: namely all his property, institution and everything associated with it.

Therefore the Gurukuli lawsuit was actually an attack on the entire of ISKCON and Srila Prabhupada DIRECTLY by putting blame on HIM, all craftly designed and aimed primarily at destruction. In the end it offered very little return of financial significance for any of the victims, and worse yet: did not punish any of the actual singled out perpetrators actually responsible, including Jagadish, the hypocritical public voice for the lawsuit at the time.

In sum, the lawsuit should not in any way be used as some kind of platform of victorious deeds.

(2014)

Letter from Mukunda Dasa to Windle Turley re Gurukuli Abuse Lawsuit (1999)

aka THE INFAMOUS MUKUNDA/SANAT "CHILD-CHOPPING LETTER"

For the last 20 years Tim Lee (PADA) has been repeatedly saying that Mukunda Dasa and Sanat (Sanatan Goswami Dasa) wrote a letter to Windle Turley (and others) regarding the ex-Gurukulu abuse lawsut, saying that children should be chopped up and fed to dogs, etc.. Many devotees have been asking Tim Lee to show this letter for 20 years now but he never did. Anyway, the long wait is finally over! Here is the actual letter sent to Windle-Turley by Mukunda & Sanat:

Dear Windle Turley law firm,

                                        I am writing to you in regards to the Hare Krishna Lawsuit and in particular to the following statement found under the section Plaintiffs Original Complaint:

 

37. The founder of the institution, Prabhupada, was informed in 1972, at a time when he totally controlled the institution, that extensive physical and sexual abuse of minor ISKCON children was occurring, but he concealed the wrongdoing from the public, parents and all but a handful of close advisors.

 

I would like to request you to make a public statement that His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada was in no way whatsoever the cause of any abuse to his spiritual children, and apologise for the above very offensive statement that Srila Prabhupada was covering up this abuse and thus implying that he never tried to rectify this unfortunate situation. You should take note of the following letters:

 

The important matter is that the children are taken care of nicely. Bhavananda was talking with me that in New Vrindaban students were very much neglected. Therefore they were immediately transferred to New York. Every parent wants to see that their children are taken care of very nicely. That is the first duty. If they are not healthy then how they can prosecute their education? If they are undernourished it is not good for their future activities. They must have sufficient quantity of milk and then dhal, capatis, vegetables, and a little fruit will keep them always fit. There is no need of luxurious fatty foods but milk is essential. A big building is also very good for the children's health. They can move freely and run and jump.

(Srila Prabhupada Letter: Satsvarupa 71-10-09)

 

In 1971 when Srila Prabhupada was informed of about children being neglected they were immediately transferred to a better situation in New York where they coulld be taken care of nicely. Please note how Srila Prabhupada instructs children should be taken care of.

 

In the following letter written in 1972 Srila Prabhupada replies to Bhanutanya dasi about her complaint that children in the Dallas Gurukula were sometimes mistreated:

 

  My Dear Bhanutanya dasi,

    Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter undated, and I have noted the contents with great concern. One thing is, I am very much sad to learn that you have left the company of the devotees over this incident at Gurukula school. Now you are living by yourself because you have been hurt by seeing that the children are sometimes mistreated, and because no one has taken your good advice in this connection. But you may be assured that I am always anxious about the welfare of my disciples, so that I am taking steps to rectify this unfortunate situation. Now my advice to you is to give up these feelings and return to your life of Krishna Consciousness devotional service, and if you go back to Dallas school and demonstrate to the other teachers there just the proper way to instruct and discipline the students nicely, that will be a great service. I am forwarding the copy of this letter, with your letter, to Satsvarupa for his immediately attention.
   Now the thing is, children should not be beaten at all, that I have told. They should simply be shown the stick strongly. So if one cannot manage in that way then he is not fit as teacher. If a child is trained properly in Krishna Consciousness, he will never go away. That means he must have two things, love and education. So if there is beating of child, that will be difficult for him to accept in loving spirit, and when he is old enough he may want to go away--that is the danger. So why these things are going on _ marching and chanting japa, insufficient milk, too strict enforcement of time schedules, hitting the small children? Why these things are being imposed? Why they are inventing these such new things like marching and japa like army? What can I do from such a distant place? They should run and play when they are small children, not forced to chant japa, that is not the way. So I have given you the guiding principles, it is not that I must be consulted with every small detail, that is the business of the in-charge, but if no one is there who can manage in the right way, what can I do? Now if you have got the right idea how to do it, you may go there again and take some responsible post for correcting the situation, that will be your real duty, not that there is some disagreement and I go away disgusted, no. That is not Vaisnava standard. Standard should be that, never mind there is some difficulty, my spiritual master has ordered me to do like this, now let me do it, that's all.
   Hoping this will meet you in good health.

Your ever well-wisher,
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami 

(Srila Prabhupada Letter to: Bhanutanya 18 November, 1972)

 

Please note the following statemants in particular:

 

1. But you may be assured that I am always anxious about the welfare of my disciples, so that I am taking steps to rectify this unfortunate situation.

 

2. Now my advice to you is to give up these feelings and return to your life of Krishna Consciousness devotional service, and if you go back to Dallas school and demonstrate to the other teachers there just the proper way to instruct and discipline the students nicely, that will be a great service.

 

3. Now the thing is, children should not be beaten at all, that I have told. They should simply be shown the stick strongly. So if one cannot manage in that way then he is not fit as teacher.

 

Note "That i have told" so if his so called disciples were not following his instructions which he had told to everyone who was sincere enough to care to hear, what could Srila Prabhupada do from such a distant place ?

 

4. So why these things are going on  marching and chanting japa, insufficient milk, too strict enforcement of time schedules, hitting the small children? Why these things are being imposed? Why they are inventing these such new things like marching and japa like army? What can I do from such a distant place? They should run and play when they are small children, not forced to chant japa, that is not the way. So I have given you the guiding principles, it is not that I must be consulted with every small detail, that is the business of the in-charge, but if no one is there who can manage in the right way, what can I do? 

 

Note: Srila Prabhupada had given all his disciples the guiding principles, especially to the men in charge. Now if they invent things and act out of anger like a gross materialistic demons why blame Srila Prabhupada. If no one was there to manage what can he do. It is very offensive to even suggest that Srila Prabhupada was concealing these things as if he was a conditioned soul acting with material duplicity. Please note the following quotes:

 

And Sri Baladeva Vidyabhusana has given about this arjava, "simplicity." He says that a brahmana even to a enemy will disclose all his secrets. Even to his enemy. Nobody discloses his secrets before an enemy, but a brahmana, if he, even he finds out a enemy, he will disclose all the secrets. He has no secret. Brahmana means open-minded, liberal. And the opposite word is krpana, miser.

(Srimad-Bhagavatam Lecture 1.2.27 Vrndavana, November 7, 1972)

 

Arjava means simplicity. A brahmana is not supposed to be crooked and duplicity. No. Simple. It is said even the enemy wants to know something from him, he will clearly say, "It is this." That is called simplicity. 

(Deity Installation and Initiation Lecture Melbourne, April 6, 1972)

 

Srila Prabhupada is a Maha Bhagavata, a topmost devotee far far beyond a brahmana who is a beginner in the devotion service of the Lord. So your plaintiffs complaint is offensively suggesting that Srila Prabhupada is a mundane crooked creature who doesn't even have the basic human quality of being simple and straight forward. Please act very very quickly to recify your very erroneous conclusion. If not i say onto you, not as a fanatic but on the strength of my Spiritual Masters pure words. YOUR ACTIONS WILL BE A SOURCE OF ALL CALAMITIES.

 

 Thus being advised by the demoniac ministers, Kamsa, who was from the very beginning the greatest rascal, decided to persecute the brahmanas and Vaisnavas, being entrapped by the shackles of all-devouring, eternal time. He ordered the demons to harass all kinds of saintly persons, and then he entered his house. The adherents of Kamsa were all influenced by the modes of passion as well as illusioned by the modes of ignorance, and their only business was to create enmity with saintly persons. Such activities can only reduce the duration of life. The demons accelerated the process and invited their deaths as soon as possible. The result of persecuting saintly persons is not only untimely death. The act is so offensive that the actor also gradually loses his beauty, his fame and his religious principles, and his promotion to higher planets is also checked. Driven by various kinds of mental concoctions, the demons diminish all kinds of welfare. An offense at the lotus feet of the devotees and brahmanas is a greater offense than that committed at the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Thus a godless civilization becomes the source of all calamities.

(Thus ends the Bhaktivedanta purport of the Fourth Chapter of Krsna, "Kamsa Begins His Persecutions.")

 

Respectfully submitted,

Mukunda dasa. 

 

  P.S. In regards to the offensive claim that Srila Prabhupada conclealed physical and sexual abuse of children in ISKCON from the public, parents and all but a handful of close advisors. This claim is completely proved false in Srila Prabhupada's letter that i have already pointed out to you. Here are the sections for you to again note with care:

 

Now my advice to you is to give up these feelings and return to your life of Krishna Consciousness devotional service, and if you go back to Dallas school and demonstrate to the other teachers there just the proper way to instruct and discipline the students nicely, that will be a great service.

(Srila Prabhupada Letter to: Bhanutanya 18 November, 1972)

 

Srila Prabhupada's advice to Bhanutanya dasi is to return to Dallas school demonstrate to the other teachers there just the proper way to instruct and discipline the students nicely. So where is there a question of concealing:

 

Now if you have got the right idea how to do it, you may go there again and take some responsible post for correcting the situation, that will be your real duty, not that there is some disagreement and I go away disgusted, no.

(Srila Prabhupada Letter to: Bhanutanya 18 November, 1972)

 

She has just being instructed by her Spiritual Master to go and sort things out on his behalf. So she was given full authority so go there, take some responsible post and as his representative REPEAT AND PRACTICALLY APPLY HIS INSTRUCTIONS and thus rectify the situation.

 

Again for your careful consideration are those instructions given by Srila Prabhupada to his representative Bhanutanya dasi in 1972:

 

Now the thing is, children should not be beaten at all, that I have told. They should simply be shown the stick strongly. So if one cannot manage in that way then he is not fit as teacher. If a child is trained properly in Krishna Consciousness, he will never go away. That means he must have two things, love and education. So if there is beating of child, that will be difficult for him to accept in loving spirit, and when he is old enough he may want to go away--that is the danger. So why these things are going on _ marching and chanting japa, insufficient milk, too strict enforcement of time schedules, hitting the small children? Why these things are being imposed? Why they are inventing these such new things like marching and japa like army? What can I do from such a distant place? They should run and play when they are small children, not forced to chant japa, that is not the way.

(Srila Prabhupada Letter to: Bhanutanya 18 November, 1972)

Another Srila Prabhupada letter from 1972, again clearly showing his great concern for the children at Dallas Gurukula:

 

My Dear Mohanananda,
   Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge your letter dated November 22, 1972, and I have noted the contents with great care. I am very, very glad to hear of your desire to return to Gurukula school and apply yourself to developing that place. I am so glad to hear this good news. Only a few weeks back I had got a letter from Satsvarupa wherein he has informed me that Stoka Krishna has left Dallas and that he must go there to take charge himself. But he is sannyasi and he should travel and preach, and he has not much taste for watching after so many things. So I had suggested him to get a full-time manager, some grhastha, nice husband and wife together, to manage the things, and that he shall expect that such person will stay tightly and develop it and make that his life work. It is the most important preaching work, to train our children in Krishna Consciousness education of life. And I think that you are just the right man to do it. Krishna has given you the right idea, just see! I was also at Dallas school last summer and I was very much impressed with these children, how nicely they are becoming preachers and kirtana men and girls. If we can develop properly, one day they will turn the world by their preaching. Let the small children from all good families in your country come to our Gurukula school and take education from us. They may be certain their children will get the real knowledge which will create the best citizens of brahminical type, clean, honest, law-abiding, healthy, industrious, all good qualities they will have. Now I think Krishna has inspired you in this way, and every facility is there, you are the pioneer in Dallas and you know how to do everything nicely, that I know, so now you go there immediately after consulting with Satsvarupa and Karandhara and Madhudvisa and the others, take their advice and do the needful. If you become Head Master of the Gurukula that is more important than going to South America. This is the most important post in pushing on this movement, practically, because you shall create our preachers of the future, many, many of them. That will be your great credit and contribution. May Krishna give you His all blessings more and more for this task.
   If you still like to contact Hanuman, he is having some difficulty with the governments in these places, but I have just got on letter from him the following address: c.o Agencia Wallis C. A. Edificio Karam, Avenida Urdmeta, P. O. Box 1826, Caracas, Venezuela. But I think it is better if he takes some brahmacaris and sannyasis with him for travelling in such difficult and dangerous places. You are manager with best experience, and besides you have got wife and child to protect, so it will be very much pleasing to me if you shall take up the big work of Gurukula school and develop it very nicely. Thank you for helping me in this way.
   Hope this meets you in good health. 

Your ever well-wisher,
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

  (Srila Prabhupada Letter to: Mohanananda Ahmedabad 11 December, 1972)

Interview with Prahlad Das

Prahlad Das responds to Tim Lee's false statements about himself and other Prabhupadanugas.

Basically, in 1997-99 Sanat and Mukunda were objecting to the blaming of Srila Prabhupada (for the gurukuli abuse) in the Windle-Turley lawsuit. So Tim Lee decided to demonize them and label them as "child-choppers" which he has done for the last 20 years.

In 2013 Prahlad Das also objected, so Tim Lee has labelled him as "a child-eating demon" for the last 6 years. This is all to distract from the fact that the actual purpose of Tim Lee and Pratyatosa's lawsuit was to defame Prabhupada, having him be recorded forever in legal history as the complicit leader of a child abuse cult, thus enabling the abusers to go on with their abuses with no fear of future legal proceedings or punishment.

INTERVIEW LINK:

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Puranjana Supports Defamation of Srila Prabhupada:
http://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/pada_defamation.html

PRATYATOSA DASA: 
"I'm convinced that if it weren't for the way in which Puranjana (Tim Lee) presented the relevant facts to the high powered lawyer, Windle Turley, the child abuse lawsuit, which reduced the number of gurukuli suicides almost to nil, would have never gotten off the ground. Therefore, I will be forever grateful to him for that reason alone." Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa (19/12/10)

Tim Lee (PADA1008): 
"I did not really "put together" the court case all myself. Pratyatosa contacted Turley and he agreed to take the case. I then helped by recruiting victims to sign up, altogether about 2,000 wanted to sign up. Turley wanted $1,000,000 for each victim so he cut it down to 500 thinking ISKCON could not pay $200M.."

JANMASTAMI SINKOWSKI:"..Those molested who took the lawsuit settlement money signed non-disclosure agreements,promising to repay all they took if they disclose the complaints they made. of the 706 filing, only 6 of us refused the settlement money and are still free to discuss such topics, without possible financial repercussions.."

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Tim Lee (PADA1008):
"Interesting that Prahlad said the only result of the lawsuit was that innocent people were going to have to pay a lot of money. OK people who are supporting a sexual predator school program are not innocent.."

PRAHLAD DAS:
"No. The other results of the Pratyatosa / Tim Lee / Windle Turdley 'prabhupada defamation' lawsuit were that many non-abusive, regular devotees were cast onto the streets as temples were closed to pay the $400.0000. Thanks to Tim and Pratyatosa, the actual abusers got off free and still control iskCON. Bhavananda is currently involved with the TOVP Mayapur project. This lawsuit ensured that they will not be prosecuted in the future as the abuse in iskCON continues. Don't the ex-Gurukulis want to see them brought to justice? The grown-up Gurukulis got paid off for their support of the defamation of Prabhupada as the controller of a child-abuse cult, while letting the actual abusers walk free. I hope they think it was worth it."

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PRAHLAD DAS:
 "I find it rather ironic (and sickening) that self-proclaimed "saviour of the children" Tim Lee (PADA/Puranjana) is a good friend and supporter of convicted child-abuser Tattva Darshan. After Tattva's release from prison he was given shelter at iskCON Bangalore by Madhu Pandit where he was allowed to give classes. He is now back in India running his child-abuse project disguised as a Krishna School. The locals call it "the American Fu*k House". Child-Saviour Tim seems to have forgotten to mention any of this. It would appear that he thinks it is more important to spend all his time demonising others for the unforgivable crime of standing up for Srila Prabhupada."

LINK: Tim Lee (Puranjana) supports convicted child-abuser

Tattva Darshan's ongoing child abuse project in Karnataka, supported by Tim Lee, Mahasringa and others. LINK:BEV Village School

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Hear how Srila Prabhupada ordered the Gurukul to be closed as soon as he heard of abuse:

PADA: "Prahlad wants to destroy the entire Krishna religion!"

Timothy Lie



Tim Lee / PADA / krishna1008 January 20, 2014:

[Thanks **** prabhu, Thats fine, my point is, before we side with people like Prahlad, we have to look at his Illuminati and other bogus links he is posting..]

Prahlad Das: What "Illuminati' and other bogus links"? Tim blocked me on FaceBook months ago, so he cannot even see what I am posting.

[..his association with GBC clones like Bhakta das..]

Prahlad Das: I have NO association with Bhakta Das: http://padaproblems.blogspot.in/2014/01/bhakta-dasa-missing-link.html

[..etc..]

Prahlad Das: Who is "etc."?

[..and the fact Prahlad wants to destroy the entire Krishna religion by siding with people who say the religion teaches it should kill and chop up child molesting victims. And they sent that odious material to the Dallas courts and New York Times -- to attempt to legally prove that this is what Krishna teaches, and they wanted to prove that legally in Dallas courts. They publicly want to advertise the Krishna religion as a child chopping program, and legally prove that by sending that idea to the Dallas Courts / New York Times etc., they want to destroy the entire religion in public. Fortunately, even karmis know that Krishna does not teach that He wants to have to molested children killed and chopped up, but that is what they want to have promoted in Krishna's name, legally and in court, and in the New York Times etc. They want to legally prove this is a child chopper cult, and they are angry that this did not happen, their plan to destroy the religion by painting as a child murdering cult has not worked, so they are angry. Even Windle Turley, as much as he does not understand things, even he knows Krishna does not teach chopping up children like these guys are teaching in public, New York Times, in court etc..]

Prahlad Das: Complete nonsense. There was NEVER even any "child-chopping" letter to begin with!: http://padaproblems.blogspot.in/2014/01/conversation-about-iskcon-children.html

[..We have to look at the fact Prahlad is living in Vrndavana and complains he is alone and without association..]

Prahlad Das: Is it now a sin to choose to live alone in Vrindavan for some time? I am not complaining. In fact i consider myself very fortunate to have such an opportunity.

[..He cannot do anything except try to take down the ritviks and destroy their preaching. The riviks will have faults, agreed, but before we take them down, we might look at what happens if that is done, then we will have people wandering around with no association, no temples, no programs, no nothing, like Prahlad..]

Prahlad Das: How am I trying to "take down the ritviks and destroy their preaching"?.. Oh, I'm not. That is your job.

[..Right now Bangalore has some books distribution with brahmacharis, just like we had in the old days. They are printing and distributing original books and etc., they are preaching, they are making devotees, and if we assist in taking them down, then we will be another version of Prahlad, we will have nothing. And if that program fails Prahlad would be happy. That is my point. I am not defending anyone's faults, I am saying that if all we do is point to other's faults all the time, then we will have nothing, as Prahlad does..]

Prahlad Das: All Tim Lee has done for the last 30 years is point out other's faults. And if he cannot find any faults he just makes them up!: http://padaproblems.blogspot.in/2014/01/unproven-crazy-accusations-by-tim-lee.html

[..In sum, he should not be our leader or example of how to do things..]

Prahlad Das: I have no desire to become anyone's leader. I am just trying to follow Prabhupada's example of how to do things and encouraging other Prabhupadanugas to do the same. Deviating from Prabhupada's instructions will be the cause of downfall for the Prabhupadanuga 'ritviks'.

[..Bangalore branch temple here has never had any rock and roll music, its not their main emphasis, this whole issue has been overblown by a person who wants to take the whole thing down. He sifts through tons of material to find one fault and he goes ballistic on that, to take us all down, he is not a person we should be promoting, that's my point. ys pd]

Prahlad Das: Who is promoting me? I am not trying to "take the whole thing down". I am just concerned about a few deviations from Srila Prabhupada's instructions that are taking place in Bangalore, as in the rest of ISKCON: http://padaproblems.blogspot.in/2014/01/strong-preaching-was-essence.html

'Tim Lee's Outrageous Lie' by Pancali Devi Dasi

Tim Lee aka Puranjana das in a written court document stated that our beloved Srila Prabhupada knew of the gurukula abuse and covered it up. We all know if Prabhupada knew of such a thing those involved would of been kicked out of ISKCON within a moment. IT'S AN OUTRAGEOUS LIE!

Why would Tim Lee suggest such a thing? It is because Tim Lee is hell bent on destroying ISKCON as in fact he hates Srila Prabhupada. He hates Prabhupada as Prabhupada heavily chastised him in regards to his leading role in the gopi bhava club. Prabhupada was so angry with Tim Lee. After Tim Lee was heavily chastised by Prabhupada within a moment Tim Lee failing to see Prabhupadas chastisement as His direct mercy stormed out of Prabhupadas room and blooped never making amends with Prabhupada. The last words spoken about Tim Lee by Prabhupada were "And you said he was sincere".

Since then Tim Lee has done nothing but spent many hours defaming Prabhupadas Transcendental Body ISKCON. He now sits on the internet day and night accusing others of all sorts of nonsense lies and has nothing substantial to add to anyone's spiritual life. Politely speaking, he is a raving lunatic. 

His blasphemous prajalpa preaching harms the spiritual growth of new bhaktas and bhaktines  Many hundreds of devotees have requested Tim to change his ways, retract his lies, make peace with Prabhupada but his blasphemy only increases. Feed a snake milk and it increases their venom. Don't stand for this nonsense. (Pancali Devi Dasi)

Puranjana Supports Defamation of Srila Prabhupada:
http://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/pada_defamation.html

'Conversation About ISKCON Children' Video (Tim Lee & Bhakta Peter)

Here are my inital comments about the 'CAIC' video which was recorded and posted yesterday on YouTube:




IN BRIEF... ABSOLUTE LIES FROM START TO FINISH!

Tim Lee (PADA/krishna1008/Puranjana) has written many lies and accusations about me & other Prabhupadanugas for months/years on his blogs & websites, and on FB (hiding behind blocks). This 'video conference' was supposed to be an opportunity to respond to some of his lies & accusations and ask for evidence for any of them. Bhakta Peter had a list of questions for Tim but he did not even present any of them to Tim or ask him for proof of the 20 accusations i provided (even though the video starts with Tim saying "So, go ahead, fire away with the first question, i'm ready"). Peter just gives him more opportunities to speak the same, tired old nonsense about killing children, etc.

FOR THE 100TH TIME!..
NOBODY (Sanat/Mukunda/Prahlad/Pancali/etc.) EVER WROTE TO KILL CHILDREN, ETC! THEY ONLY SAID: PLEASE DON'T BLAME SRILA PRABHUPADA FOR THE ABUSES COMMITTED BY THE BOGUS GURUS, GBC & THEIR FOLLOWERS!

Tim's entire argument is totally worthless because it is based entirely on LIES about Sanat's "children need to be killed, chopped up & fed to dogs" letter & now "bloodbath of children in Dallas" (new lie!) letter. Tim says these letters are all over the place (in, NYT) but he has never show them in 15+ years, although many have asked him. (For the actual letter Sanat wrote see comment below*).

It was actually Tim Lee, Pratyatosa & Nori Muster who started the lawsuit in 1997. Tim admits this himself in Peter's previous video with him: http://youtu.be/mLWWcK5P94U
Tim Lee (Puranjana/PADA1008): I WAS PUTTING TOGETHER THE WINDLE-TURLEY LAWSUIT FOR CHILD-MOLESTATION BECAUSE THE CHILDREN WERE COMITTING SUICIDE.. 97 IS WHEN I STARTED PUTTING IT TOGETHER, BUT IN WASN'T FILED UNTIL 99.. WE WERE PUTTING THE CASE TOGETHER. IN 97 WE WERE JUST GETTING THE AFFIDAVIDS AND THE TESTIMONY, YOU KNOW. WE WERE PUTTING THE CASE TOGETHER..

And it was these three (Tim Lee, Pratyatosa & Nori Muster) along with the GBC who covinced the then-adult, ex-gurukulis to put the blame on Prabhupada. This is the fact that Tim is so desperate to hide, so he is now saying that it was the children, their parents, Windle-Turley (and even Sanat & Mukunda) who were responsible for blaming Prabhupada. "They were also telling the children that this is what Prabhupada wants". Anyway, Tim Lee supported the lawsuit and made an official statement to the court stating that he did, so he was happy to blame Prabhupada. Here are some more lies Tim tells in the video:

Tim LIE: "Sanat was worshipping Satsvarupa"

<As far as I know, Sanat was initiated by Satsvarupa in the 1980's but totally rejected, and strongly exposed him after he seen Prabhupada's July 9th 'ritvik' order letter I late 1980's. There is video of Sanat burning Satsvarupa's 'Prabhupada-Lilamrita' online.>

Tim LIE: "Mukunda was worshipping Bhagavan"

<Mukunda has never worshiped Bhagavan or taken initiation from any bogus "guru". He took ritvik initiation from Kapindra Swami in early 1990s. By the way, I have never worked with Sanat ever, or even communicated with him and I am not working with Mukunda either since our Prabhupada bullock-cart chanting programs in Vrindavan in 2007-2009. I did not even know Mukunda at the time of the Turley Gurukuli-abuse lawsuit. Tim always links his perceived 'enemies' together as "they", "them", "folks", "team" or "group" and attributes his lies about one person to everyone. Neither Mukunda nor Sanat are involved in any active dispute with Tim for many years now, despite his lies to the contrary. They gave up on him as a hopeless case years ago. Anyway, on with a few more of Tim's LIES.>

Tim LIE: "In 1999 they were saying that these kids have to die"

<All these 'kids'/'children' were actually 30-something adults at the time of the lawsuit in 1999 and as i keep saying, NOBODY ever said that "they had to die, etc">

Tim LIE: "Prahlad keeps saying i'm lying. I haven't lied about anything"

<Tim has lied about EVERYTHING! I presented 20 (of 100's) of Tim's accusations against me and other Prabhupadanugas for him to prove, but Peter did not even bother to present any of them to Tim as he said he would. I thought this was the whole purpose of the 'video conference'. Not just ANOTHER platform for Tim to spread his malicious LIES, and for Peter to AGREE with him!>

Tim LIE: "Mukunda does not want original books"

<Such a blatant lie. Mukunda was the first 'ritvik' to re-print & distribute Prabhupada's original books, financed by his own money! He is still selling these on his online store:> http://www.gokula-incense.co.uk/wholesale-books-77-c.asp

Tim LIE: "I'm saying Prabhupada is being poisoned and Mukunda is saying i'm a liar"

<Mukunda has been exposing the 'poison-issue' since the start:> http://www.prabhupada.org.uk/sp_poisoned/sp_poisoned.htm

Tim LIE: "They wanted Tamal to live"

<"They" again!. Well I was happy to hear of Tamal's death. As were Mukunda & Sanat. Tamal was one of Prabhupada's poisoners (along with Jayapataka, Bhavananda & others).>

Tim LIE: "They are working with Bhakta Das"
Tim LIE :"Bhakta Das is Prahlad's right-hand man, etc."

<Simply not true. See http://padaproblems.blogspot.in/2014/01/bhakta-dasa-missing-link.html>

Tim LIE: "They attack and go after my family, children, etc."

<This is not true either. Another new LIE. I am getting sickened by all these lies, so I will end here.>

Peter: "I still think a lot of things are misunderstandings"

<There are ONLY lies and deliberate mis-understandings from Tim, as always.>

Peter: "I would encourage you to make more YouTube videos." !?

<More videos = more lies>

So, Peter has (no doubt, unintentionally?) done very nice seva for Tim's 'Anti-Prabhupadanuga' program of lies by making this video with him. I don't understand why he didn't ask Tim ANY of my questions.

Never mind, at least Tim admits that he regularly sends the "FBI, Police, Media" etc. to harrass and disrupt the preaching of other Prabhupadanuga's such as Sanat & Mukunda.

~ Prahlad Das ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MY STILL UN-ANSWERED INITIAL QUESTIONS:

Bhakta Peter: "OK i will have a skype conference with Tim lee tomorrow. If anybody has any questions type them here."

Prahlad Das: Here are my questions for Tim Lee:

Q1: Why do you have me, Janardan & others blocked on FB for months? We could have discussed here any time.

<We have actually discussed on FB in the past with Tim & his side-kick William Acbsp but he deletes all his comments when his lies and ranting start to become too obvious. I & others have also posted comments on his blog articles MANY times. He did not publish ANY of them so I gave up. Though he does often comment on his own articles pretending to be another person!>

Q2: Please provide these "child-chopping" letters that you are obsessed about.

Q3: Why has he been BLATANTLY LYING about me and other Prabhupadanugas again & again, year after year on his blog, FB, etc.?

<No more questions for now because I know he will just LIE about the first three (and everything else!) anyway.>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Below are 20 accusations that Tim Lee has published on his blog (http://krishna1008.blogspot.co.uk/) just over the last few months. Can he provide any kind of evidence for these accusations???

1: "Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad were promoting the worship of Satan as if it were the worship of Jesus".

2: "The only people who have been crying like lost little babies since 2002 over Tamal's departure are his top disciples and / or supporters like Sanat -- Prahlad -- Mukunda -- Janardan."

3: "The Prahlad team reports to us on a regular basis their being upset with Krishna for being such a violent person who killed their lord and master Tamal, because they miss licking the bottom of Tamal's shoes."

4: "Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad / Pancali / Nicklaus Evans want women to be beaten."

5: "Prahlad wants to take down the Prabhupadanugas, he is a GBC mole. What else?"

6: "Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad/ support Gaudiya Matha deviant acharyas program."

7: "Prahlad's real agenda is all along, he wants to have the Vaishnavas who do not worship homosexual pedophile guru programs assassinated!"

8: "On their web site the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad / Janardana / Bhakta das team attacks us profusely for our program of cutting off the supply line of children going to the ISKCON Auschwitz / molestation program."

9: "Prahlad is angry because we exposed the child molesting pooja and guru poisoning program, so he wants to have us killed (aka Monkey On A Stick) to punish us for exposing his REAL agenda."

10: "In fact some of the leaders of this child molester protecting and promoting group such as Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad / Pancali had a web site that said these children needed to be killed, chopped up and fed to dogs."

11: "Why is Prahlad kissing the ground where the defenders of the molester messiahs program walk, ok like Bhakta das? Why is Prahlad always kissing the jackboots of the molester messiah program supporters? Now we know why, because he wants to have the devotees of Srila Prabhupada killed so the molester pooja agenda will prevail."

12: "Sanat and Mukunda are totally upset that some children even lived. These children are in part their victims, since they were supporters of the bogus gurus when all this was going on."

13: "Sanat and Mukunda wanted the molesting to CONTINUE!"

14: "Prahlad actually supports the people who said we need to chop up these children, so he wants to dish out even worse karma to the victims of his program."

15: "Prahlad is now licking the jack boots of Bhakta and Radhanath, he is licking the jack boots of the leaders of the molester messiahs program."

16: "Bhakta das has also expressed his support for Radhanath, and now the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahald / Pancali team are glorifying the Bhakta das program."

17:"Bhakta das is now being forwarded as a great speaker and authority not only by the GBC's guru groupies program, but also by the Prahlad / Sanat / Mukunda / Pancali team."

18: "They love the supporters of the child molester pooja program like Bhakta das, and they despise anyone who does not lick the boots of the pedophile messiahs program cheer leaders as their program is doing."

19: "The Prahlad group attacks even children never mind others. And some of the children Prahlad attacked had to leave FB and close their page, because Prahald's campaign against these children was making them physically sick. He wants to drive out the people who want to glorify Prabhupada, while claiming to be a follower of Prabhupada."

20: "We have not heard anything from Prahlad so far."