THE HYPOCRISY OF THE GURUKULI LAWSUIT by Krishna Kirtan Dasa (2014)

So you want to address hypocrisy? Might as well. It is indeed hard to deal with hypocrisy, so perhaps I can share the following.

I remember being involved one night in an intense spontaneous debate (it was somewhat civilized but very intense) somewhere in 1997/98 in someone's apartment in Alachua, just around when the multimillion dollar lawsuit was taking off. The famous and known Minister of Education of ISKCON, Jagadish, was also present.

ABC News had just aired (or was about to air) that famous documentary on the subject, and Jagadish himself was one of the main persons interviewed in the documentary as a supporter of the lawsuit, criticizing ISKCON and putting blame not only on the organization ISKCON, but including direct blame onto Srila Prabhupada.

It was a heated debate with good points brought forward from both sides. There were many present; and it went on for quite sometime. Jagadish was present, was asked to speak, and he spoke. Pretty much the same rhetoric that was presented on the ABC documentary, heavier.

That night Jagadish himself was then trying to make a case against none other than Srila Prabhupada himself: how all the abuse was ultimately Srila Prabhupada's fault for having created such an institution where the abuse occurred, and so on. [I hope he repented some of what he said.]

Myself being so young (20 at the time), it was hard to deal with so many emotions and attention. Most were in favor of the lawsuit and others were quiet. I remember there were quite a few people present. But I do remember managing to land the following argument:

EVEN if Srila Prabhupada was guilty of anything indirectly (or directly - prove it!), most of the abuse actually occurred AFTER Srila Prabhupada departed. Well, since Jagadish was himself the Minister of Education during these after years, by pure logical reasoning he ought to take AT LEAST 50% of the responsibility for the criminal events against the children, therefore making him not eligible to even speak at all on the subject, what to speak of being the chosen one to appear on nation wide Television on prime-time to represent the case against ISKCON.

To my surprise then, when I said that he appeared shocked and he actually agreed with the logic without saying anything else, and remained quiet for the rest of the night with nothing else to say after that. It had been the first time I had actually voiced my opinion on the subject and stopped someone of that stature on his tracks.

Please kindly don't tell me about hypocrisy, Tim Lee. Remember that I am also one of those who suffered at the hands of incompetent Gurukula teachers. All I can say about myself is that I have interest in actual truth, not mixed or hypocritical presentations of the truth, and that my faith and personal protection resides only in my surrender to Lord Hari, who is the actual shelter of everyone.

Krishna Kirtan

PS. And even beyond the Jagadish hypocrisy, the very tactic used by the lawyers was to attack ISKCON as an organization. RICO. That was their platform.

Instead of suing and addressing the perpetrators of the abuse and their leaders, the whole institution was attacked instead, causing harm to the entire institution, and even to all innocent mass of devotees who are part of ISKCON, and who had nothing to do with any of it. In other words, it was a stealthy contrived plan to destroy Srila Prabhupada's legacy, person, and what he built: namely all his property, institution and everything associated with it.

Therefore the Gurukuli lawsuit was actually an attack on the entire of ISKCON and Srila Prabhupada DIRECTLY by putting blame on HIM, all craftly designed and aimed primarily at destruction. In the end it offered very little return of financial significance for any of the victims, and worse yet: did not punish any of the actual singled out perpetrators actually responsible, including Jagadish, the hypocritical public voice for the lawsuit at the time.

In sum, the lawsuit should not in any way be used as some kind of platform of victorious deeds.

(2014)

Letter from Mukunda Dasa to Windle Turley re Gurukuli Abuse Lawsuit (1999)

aka THE INFAMOUS MUKUNDA/SANAT "CHILD-CHOPPING LETTER"

For the last 20 years Tim Lee (PADA) has been repeatedly saying that Mukunda Dasa and Sanat (Sanatan Goswami Dasa) wrote a letter to Windle Turley (and others) regarding the ex-Gurukulu abuse lawsut, saying that children should be chopped up and fed to dogs, etc.. Many devotees have been asking Tim Lee to show this letter for 20 years now but he never did. Anyway, the long wait is finally over! Here is the actual letter sent to Windle-Turley by Mukunda & Sanat:

Dear Windle Turley law firm,

                                        I am writing to you in regards to the Hare Krishna Lawsuit and in particular to the following statement found under the section Plaintiffs Original Complaint:

 

37. The founder of the institution, Prabhupada, was informed in 1972, at a time when he totally controlled the institution, that extensive physical and sexual abuse of minor ISKCON children was occurring, but he concealed the wrongdoing from the public, parents and all but a handful of close advisors.

 

I would like to request you to make a public statement that His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada was in no way whatsoever the cause of any abuse to his spiritual children, and apologise for the above very offensive statement that Srila Prabhupada was covering up this abuse and thus implying that he never tried to rectify this unfortunate situation. You should take note of the following letters:

 

The important matter is that the children are taken care of nicely. Bhavananda was talking with me that in New Vrindaban students were very much neglected. Therefore they were immediately transferred to New York. Every parent wants to see that their children are taken care of very nicely. That is the first duty. If they are not healthy then how they can prosecute their education? If they are undernourished it is not good for their future activities. They must have sufficient quantity of milk and then dhal, capatis, vegetables, and a little fruit will keep them always fit. There is no need of luxurious fatty foods but milk is essential. A big building is also very good for the children's health. They can move freely and run and jump.

(Srila Prabhupada Letter: Satsvarupa 71-10-09)

 

In 1971 when Srila Prabhupada was informed of about children being neglected they were immediately transferred to a better situation in New York where they coulld be taken care of nicely. Please note how Srila Prabhupada instructs children should be taken care of.

 

In the following letter written in 1972 Srila Prabhupada replies to Bhanutanya dasi about her complaint that children in the Dallas Gurukula were sometimes mistreated:

 

  My Dear Bhanutanya dasi,

    Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter undated, and I have noted the contents with great concern. One thing is, I am very much sad to learn that you have left the company of the devotees over this incident at Gurukula school. Now you are living by yourself because you have been hurt by seeing that the children are sometimes mistreated, and because no one has taken your good advice in this connection. But you may be assured that I am always anxious about the welfare of my disciples, so that I am taking steps to rectify this unfortunate situation. Now my advice to you is to give up these feelings and return to your life of Krishna Consciousness devotional service, and if you go back to Dallas school and demonstrate to the other teachers there just the proper way to instruct and discipline the students nicely, that will be a great service. I am forwarding the copy of this letter, with your letter, to Satsvarupa for his immediately attention.
   Now the thing is, children should not be beaten at all, that I have told. They should simply be shown the stick strongly. So if one cannot manage in that way then he is not fit as teacher. If a child is trained properly in Krishna Consciousness, he will never go away. That means he must have two things, love and education. So if there is beating of child, that will be difficult for him to accept in loving spirit, and when he is old enough he may want to go away--that is the danger. So why these things are going on _ marching and chanting japa, insufficient milk, too strict enforcement of time schedules, hitting the small children? Why these things are being imposed? Why they are inventing these such new things like marching and japa like army? What can I do from such a distant place? They should run and play when they are small children, not forced to chant japa, that is not the way. So I have given you the guiding principles, it is not that I must be consulted with every small detail, that is the business of the in-charge, but if no one is there who can manage in the right way, what can I do? Now if you have got the right idea how to do it, you may go there again and take some responsible post for correcting the situation, that will be your real duty, not that there is some disagreement and I go away disgusted, no. That is not Vaisnava standard. Standard should be that, never mind there is some difficulty, my spiritual master has ordered me to do like this, now let me do it, that's all.
   Hoping this will meet you in good health.

Your ever well-wisher,
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami 

(Srila Prabhupada Letter to: Bhanutanya 18 November, 1972)

 

Please note the following statemants in particular:

 

1. But you may be assured that I am always anxious about the welfare of my disciples, so that I am taking steps to rectify this unfortunate situation.

 

2. Now my advice to you is to give up these feelings and return to your life of Krishna Consciousness devotional service, and if you go back to Dallas school and demonstrate to the other teachers there just the proper way to instruct and discipline the students nicely, that will be a great service.

 

3. Now the thing is, children should not be beaten at all, that I have told. They should simply be shown the stick strongly. So if one cannot manage in that way then he is not fit as teacher.

 

Note "That i have told" so if his so called disciples were not following his instructions which he had told to everyone who was sincere enough to care to hear, what could Srila Prabhupada do from such a distant place ?

 

4. So why these things are going on  marching and chanting japa, insufficient milk, too strict enforcement of time schedules, hitting the small children? Why these things are being imposed? Why they are inventing these such new things like marching and japa like army? What can I do from such a distant place? They should run and play when they are small children, not forced to chant japa, that is not the way. So I have given you the guiding principles, it is not that I must be consulted with every small detail, that is the business of the in-charge, but if no one is there who can manage in the right way, what can I do? 

 

Note: Srila Prabhupada had given all his disciples the guiding principles, especially to the men in charge. Now if they invent things and act out of anger like a gross materialistic demons why blame Srila Prabhupada. If no one was there to manage what can he do. It is very offensive to even suggest that Srila Prabhupada was concealing these things as if he was a conditioned soul acting with material duplicity. Please note the following quotes:

 

And Sri Baladeva Vidyabhusana has given about this arjava, "simplicity." He says that a brahmana even to a enemy will disclose all his secrets. Even to his enemy. Nobody discloses his secrets before an enemy, but a brahmana, if he, even he finds out a enemy, he will disclose all the secrets. He has no secret. Brahmana means open-minded, liberal. And the opposite word is krpana, miser.

(Srimad-Bhagavatam Lecture 1.2.27 Vrndavana, November 7, 1972)

 

Arjava means simplicity. A brahmana is not supposed to be crooked and duplicity. No. Simple. It is said even the enemy wants to know something from him, he will clearly say, "It is this." That is called simplicity. 

(Deity Installation and Initiation Lecture Melbourne, April 6, 1972)

 

Srila Prabhupada is a Maha Bhagavata, a topmost devotee far far beyond a brahmana who is a beginner in the devotion service of the Lord. So your plaintiffs complaint is offensively suggesting that Srila Prabhupada is a mundane crooked creature who doesn't even have the basic human quality of being simple and straight forward. Please act very very quickly to recify your very erroneous conclusion. If not i say onto you, not as a fanatic but on the strength of my Spiritual Masters pure words. YOUR ACTIONS WILL BE A SOURCE OF ALL CALAMITIES.

 

 Thus being advised by the demoniac ministers, Kamsa, who was from the very beginning the greatest rascal, decided to persecute the brahmanas and Vaisnavas, being entrapped by the shackles of all-devouring, eternal time. He ordered the demons to harass all kinds of saintly persons, and then he entered his house. The adherents of Kamsa were all influenced by the modes of passion as well as illusioned by the modes of ignorance, and their only business was to create enmity with saintly persons. Such activities can only reduce the duration of life. The demons accelerated the process and invited their deaths as soon as possible. The result of persecuting saintly persons is not only untimely death. The act is so offensive that the actor also gradually loses his beauty, his fame and his religious principles, and his promotion to higher planets is also checked. Driven by various kinds of mental concoctions, the demons diminish all kinds of welfare. An offense at the lotus feet of the devotees and brahmanas is a greater offense than that committed at the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Thus a godless civilization becomes the source of all calamities.

(Thus ends the Bhaktivedanta purport of the Fourth Chapter of Krsna, "Kamsa Begins His Persecutions.")

 

Respectfully submitted,

Mukunda dasa. 

 

  P.S. In regards to the offensive claim that Srila Prabhupada conclealed physical and sexual abuse of children in ISKCON from the public, parents and all but a handful of close advisors. This claim is completely proved false in Srila Prabhupada's letter that i have already pointed out to you. Here are the sections for you to again note with care:

 

Now my advice to you is to give up these feelings and return to your life of Krishna Consciousness devotional service, and if you go back to Dallas school and demonstrate to the other teachers there just the proper way to instruct and discipline the students nicely, that will be a great service.

(Srila Prabhupada Letter to: Bhanutanya 18 November, 1972)

 

Srila Prabhupada's advice to Bhanutanya dasi is to return to Dallas school demonstrate to the other teachers there just the proper way to instruct and discipline the students nicely. So where is there a question of concealing:

 

Now if you have got the right idea how to do it, you may go there again and take some responsible post for correcting the situation, that will be your real duty, not that there is some disagreement and I go away disgusted, no.

(Srila Prabhupada Letter to: Bhanutanya 18 November, 1972)

 

She has just being instructed by her Spiritual Master to go and sort things out on his behalf. So she was given full authority so go there, take some responsible post and as his representative REPEAT AND PRACTICALLY APPLY HIS INSTRUCTIONS and thus rectify the situation.

 

Again for your careful consideration are those instructions given by Srila Prabhupada to his representative Bhanutanya dasi in 1972:

 

Now the thing is, children should not be beaten at all, that I have told. They should simply be shown the stick strongly. So if one cannot manage in that way then he is not fit as teacher. If a child is trained properly in Krishna Consciousness, he will never go away. That means he must have two things, love and education. So if there is beating of child, that will be difficult for him to accept in loving spirit, and when he is old enough he may want to go away--that is the danger. So why these things are going on _ marching and chanting japa, insufficient milk, too strict enforcement of time schedules, hitting the small children? Why these things are being imposed? Why they are inventing these such new things like marching and japa like army? What can I do from such a distant place? They should run and play when they are small children, not forced to chant japa, that is not the way.

(Srila Prabhupada Letter to: Bhanutanya 18 November, 1972)

Another Srila Prabhupada letter from 1972, again clearly showing his great concern for the children at Dallas Gurukula:

 

My Dear Mohanananda,
   Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge your letter dated November 22, 1972, and I have noted the contents with great care. I am very, very glad to hear of your desire to return to Gurukula school and apply yourself to developing that place. I am so glad to hear this good news. Only a few weeks back I had got a letter from Satsvarupa wherein he has informed me that Stoka Krishna has left Dallas and that he must go there to take charge himself. But he is sannyasi and he should travel and preach, and he has not much taste for watching after so many things. So I had suggested him to get a full-time manager, some grhastha, nice husband and wife together, to manage the things, and that he shall expect that such person will stay tightly and develop it and make that his life work. It is the most important preaching work, to train our children in Krishna Consciousness education of life. And I think that you are just the right man to do it. Krishna has given you the right idea, just see! I was also at Dallas school last summer and I was very much impressed with these children, how nicely they are becoming preachers and kirtana men and girls. If we can develop properly, one day they will turn the world by their preaching. Let the small children from all good families in your country come to our Gurukula school and take education from us. They may be certain their children will get the real knowledge which will create the best citizens of brahminical type, clean, honest, law-abiding, healthy, industrious, all good qualities they will have. Now I think Krishna has inspired you in this way, and every facility is there, you are the pioneer in Dallas and you know how to do everything nicely, that I know, so now you go there immediately after consulting with Satsvarupa and Karandhara and Madhudvisa and the others, take their advice and do the needful. If you become Head Master of the Gurukula that is more important than going to South America. This is the most important post in pushing on this movement, practically, because you shall create our preachers of the future, many, many of them. That will be your great credit and contribution. May Krishna give you His all blessings more and more for this task.
   If you still like to contact Hanuman, he is having some difficulty with the governments in these places, but I have just got on letter from him the following address: c.o Agencia Wallis C. A. Edificio Karam, Avenida Urdmeta, P. O. Box 1826, Caracas, Venezuela. But I think it is better if he takes some brahmacaris and sannyasis with him for travelling in such difficult and dangerous places. You are manager with best experience, and besides you have got wife and child to protect, so it will be very much pleasing to me if you shall take up the big work of Gurukula school and develop it very nicely. Thank you for helping me in this way.
   Hope this meets you in good health. 

Your ever well-wisher,
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

  (Srila Prabhupada Letter to: Mohanananda Ahmedabad 11 December, 1972)

Was Srila Prabhupada Poisoned? (The Evidence)

READ HERE: Kill Guru Become Guru (Book One) pdf

 You try to trace out the history of the world, you’ll find always persons who are for Krsna or God, they have been persecuted. Lord Jesus Christ was crucified, Haridasa Thakura was caned in twenty-two market places, Prahlada Maharaja was tortured by his father. So there may be such things. Of course, Krsna will protect us. So don’t be afraid. Don’t be afraid if somebody tortures us, somebody teases us. We must go on with Krsna consciousness without any hesitation, and Krsna will give us protect. (Srimad Bhagavatam 7.9.8 Lecture Seattle 21/10/68) 

titiksavah karunikah
suhrdah sarva-bhutanam
ajata-satravah santah
sadhavah sadhu-bhusanah

   This is the qualification of sadhu. Sadhu is titiksava, tolerates all kinds of miserable conditions. He is sadhu. Because this is a place of miserable condition. A sadhu learns how to tolerate. Sadhu is never disturbed. Yasmin sthito gurunapi duhkhena na vicalyate. A sadhu, who has got the shelter of Krsna, if he is placed in the severest type of dangerous condition, he is never disturbed.
   Just like Prahlada Maharaja, his father was putting him in so many dangerous conditions, even he was supplying with poison. He knew that “My father has given me poison to drink. All right, let me drink. If Krsna likes, He will save me. I am now put into such dangerous position. I have to drink. Father is giving poison. Who can check?” And such a big powerful Hiranyakasipu. The mother cried, requested... He forced the mother, Prahlada’s mother, “Give your son this poison.” So she begged so much, but he was a rascal demon. “No, you must give.” So the mother knew, the son knew that the rascal father is giving this poison. What can he do, a small child? “All right, let me drink.” Gurunapi duhkhena na vicalyate. He is not agitating. “All right, if Krsna likes, I will live.” This is the position of sadhu. He is not disturbed. Titiksavah. In all circumstances, he is tolerant. That is sadhu. Sadhu does not become disturbed. Titiksavah. At the same time, karunikah. He is himself disturbed, but he is merciful to others.
   Just like Jesus Christ. He is being crucified, and still he is merciful: “God, these people do not know what they are doing. Please excuse them.” This is sadhu. He is personally being disturbed by the demons, but still, he is merciful to the general people. They are suffering for want of Krsna consciousness. So even up to the point of death, he is trying to preach Krsna consciousness. “Let the people be benefited. Eh, what is this material body? Even if I am killed, I am not killed. This body is killed, that’s all.” This is sadhu. Titiksavah karunikah. In one side he is tolerant, and other side, merciful. (Bhagavad-gita 1.21-22 Lecture London 18/7/73)

    When something is arranged by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one should not be disturbed by it, even if it appears to be a reverse according to one’s calculations. For example, sometimes we see that a powerful preacher is killed, or sometimes he is put into difficulty, just as Haridasa Thakura was. He was a great devotee who came into this material world to execute the will of the Lord by preaching the Lord’s glories. But Haridasa was punished at the hands of the Kazi by being beaten in twenty-two marketplaces. Similarly, Lord Jesus Christ was crucified, and Prahlada Maharaja was put through so many tribulations.
    The Pandavas, who were direct friends of Krsna, lost their kingdom, their wife was insulted, and they had to undergo many severe tribulations. Seeing all these reverses affect devotees, one should not be disturbed; one should simply understand that in these matters there must be some plan of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The Bhagavatam’s conclusion is that a devotee is never disturbed by such reverses. He accepts even reverse conditions as the grace of the Lord. One who continues to serve the Lord even in reverse conditions is assured that he will go back to Godhead, back to the Vaikuntha planets. (Srimad Bhagavatam 3.16.37 purport)

     This is our position. Gradually they will show Hare Krsna movement. In India also, although India’s... They will want to crush down this movement. So this will be up to Him. Krsna or Krsna’s movement, the same thing. And Krsna was attempted to be killed by Kamsa class of men and his company, the demons. SO IT WILL BE THERE; IT IS ALREADY THERE. Don’t be disappointed, because that is the meaning that it is successful. Krsna’s favor is there, because Krsna and Krsna’s movement is not different, identical. So as Krsna was attempted to be killed, many, many years before He appeared... At eighth child, if the mother produces child yearly, still ten years, eight years before His birth, the mother was to be attempted to be killed. SO THERE MAY BE ATTEMPT LIKE THAT. And Lord Jesus Christ was killed. SO THEY MAY KILL ME ALSO. (Conversation Honolulu 3/5/76)

    So there are these snake-like persons. They are envious about our movement, and they are opposing. That is the nature. Prahlada Maharaja also was opposed by his father, what to speak of others THESE THINGS WILL HAPPEN... HE WAS ALSO SERVED WITH POISON. (Srimad Bhagavatam Lecture Mayapur 28/02/77)

THAT IS MY ONLY REQUEST, THAT AT THE LAST STAGE DON’T TORTURE ME AND PUT ME TO DEATH.
(Room Conversation Vrindavan 3/11/77)

"We Are Not Hindus" - Srila Prabhupada

You may call the Vedas Hindu, but "Hindu" is a foreign name. WE ARE NOT HINDUS. (Sri Isopanisad Introduction)

Simply we are teaching that “Become God conscious.” God is neither Hindu nor Muslim nor Christian. He’s God. And WE ARE ALSO NOT HINDU or Muslim or Christian. This is our bodily designation. We are all pure, part and parcel of the Supreme. (BG Lecture NY 23/11/66)

Prabhupada: (chuckles) And that mataji, she has taken land. I don't like that idea. Some Hindus are supporting. I don't want a Hindu temple. Our constitution is different. We want everyone. Krsna consciousness is for everyone. IT IS NOT A HINDU PROPOGANDA. People may not misunderstand. And actually, till now IN OUR SOCIETY THERE IS NOT A SINGLE OTHER HINDU THAN ME. (laughter) Is that not? (Meeting 9/6/69) New Vrindavana)

Lord Caitanya, He said that “I am not a brahmana. I am not a Christian. I AM NOT A HINDU. I am not a sannyasi. I am nothing of this sort.” Then what You are? “I am the servant’s servant’s servant of Krsna. That is My identification.” And when you identify yourself in that way, you are liberated. That is Krsna consciousness, perfection of Krsna consciousness. (CC Lecture New York 21/12/66)

Prabhupada: No, no. Everyone will help us. Maybe... In that way sometimes Hindus are also against. It is not the Mohammedans. Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s time, even THE HINDUS WERE AGAINST HIS MOVEMENT, the brahmanas. They complained to the Kazi that “THIS IS NOT HINDU MOVEMENT.” You see? The sankirtana movement. Therefore Kazi had to take steps to stop the sankirtana movement. So Kazi took step on the ground of complaint by the Hindus.
Nitai: That’s similar to what happened in Bombay.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Nitai: That’s similar to what happened...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Nitai: ...in Bombay.
Prabhupada: THE HINDUS THEY WANTED TO BREAK OUR TEMPLE, and they broke part of it. You do not know?
(Morning Walk 6/3/74) 

Actually, “Hindu,” THERE IS NO SUCH WORD AS “HINDU” RELIGION. We don’t find in the Vedic scripture. Hindu religion... Hindu religion is a modern term given by the foreigners. Actually the Indians, bharatiya, they, their religion is varnasrama-dharma, religion of four castes and four spiritual orders, four spiritual orders and four social orders. The persons who follow these four orders of social status and four orders of spiritual advancement, they are called varnasrama. SO HINDU RELIGION IS A MISCALCULATION. (CC Lecture - NY 11/1/67)

But India, they have given up the real religious system, sanatana-dharma, or varnasrama-dharma. FICTITIOUSLY, THEY HAVE ACCEPTED A HODGEPODGE THING WHICH IS CALLED HINDUISM. THEREFORE THERE IS TROUBLE. Everywhere, but India especially, they are... Vedic religion... Vedic religion means varnasrama-dharma. That is... Krsna says, God says, catur-varnyam maya srstam [Bg. 4.13]. So that is, what is called, obligatory. Just like law is obligatory. You cannot say that “I don’t take this law.” No. You have to take it if you want to have a happy. You cannot become outlaw. Then you’ll not be happy. You’ll be punished. So God says maya srstam. “It is given by Me.” So how we can deny it? And that is religion. (Conv. - Vrindavan 28/6/76)

Other religious sects, they say this is Hindu belief. When Krsna says dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara: just like the child is becoming boy, boy is becoming young man. This is science. AND WHY DO YOU SAY IT IS HINDU BELIEF? Does it mean that a Muslim or Christian child does not become a boy? What do you mean by Hindu belief? But they say it like that, Hindu belief. Is that correct if somebody says it is Hindu belief? NO, IT IS FACT, IT IS SCIENCE. What do you think? Is that Hindu belief?" (Tehran 8/8/76)

So where is the difficulty to understand? Plain thing. Plain thing. But we are stubborn. We do not wish to understand. This is not a sectarian; this is a science. If a child becomes a boy, is that sectarian? The Hindu child becomes a boy, Hindu boy, and the Christian child becomes a Christian. That is outward, Hindu, Muslim, Christian. But within this body... I am Hindu or Christian because I have got this body from the Christian father-mother, Hindu father-mother. But that is body. I am not this body. Therefore we have to understand first that “I am not this body. Therefore I am not Hindu, not Muslim, not Christian, not black, not white. I am pure spirit soul.” Aham brahmasmi. THIS IS THE FIRST BASIC KNOWLEDGE. THIS IS NOT SECTARIAN. This is a basic knowledge, you believe or not believe. (BG Lect. – 22/4/76 Melbourne)

In Durban we went to that university. You remember? That Arya-samaji? He was speaking that “This is Hindu conception. Hindu conception.” And what do you mean by Hindu conception? A child grows to become a boy. Is that Hindu conception? It is science. When Krsna said, dehino ’smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara [Bg.2.13], that’s a fact. It is applicable to the Hindus, to the Muslim, to the Christian, everyone. Why do you say it is Hindu conception? SO, YOU HAVE TO PRESENT IN THAT WAY, THAT THEY MAY NOT THINK THAT IT IS HINDU CONCEPTION. Because they are all rascals, unless you explain it, that this is meant for everyone, they will misunderstand that Bhagavata is for the Hindus or for the Indians. It is for everyone. But one must realize. There is no question of Hindu conception or Muslim conception. (MW - Mayapur 20/1/76)

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS HINDU DHARMA. NO. There is no such word in the whole Vedic literature. You won’t find in the Bhagavad-gita or Bhagavata as Hindu dharma. There is one word as bhagavata-dharma, but there is no such word as Hindu dharma. This Hindu dharma or Hindu... This is creation by our neighbour, Indian neighbour, the Middle-east Muhammadans. They gave the name, Indian people, as “Hindu.” “Hindu” means... There is one river, Sindhu. The Muhammadans, they pronounce sa as ha. So those who were on the other side of the Sindhu River, Hindu River, they were called Hindus. But actually Vedic religion is neither for Hindus nor for Christian nor for... It is meant for the human being. Vedic literature... This Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, they are VEDIC literature. (SB Lecture - NY 5/3/75)

Bhakti, devotional service is not dependent on any material condition. Because one man is very rich, he can get Krsna? No. Because one man is very poor, he cannot get Krsna? No. That’s not right. Because one is Hindu or Indian, he can get Krsna, not others? No. That is also not. Krsna is unconditionally for everyone. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita: sarva yonisu kaunteya [Bg. 14.4]. Otherwise, how He can be God? If He is a Hindu God, just like they describe in the dictionary that Krsna, a Hindu God—that is nonsense. Krsna is for everyone. Krsna does not say that “I am a Hindu God.’’ But these rascals say Krsna is Hindu God. This is going on. You see in the Bhagavad-gita, Krsna says, sarva yonisu kaunteya [Bg.14.4]. “In all species of life.’’ Sambhavanti murtayah. There are as many different forms of life. Tasam mahad yoni, brahma: “Their mother is this material nature, and I am their seed-giving father.’’ Krsna says that. So how can Krsna be Indian or Hindu or this or that? No. Krsna is for everyone. And the proof is that five years ago in the Western countries nobody knew what is Krsna. How they’re taking Krsna in so loving attitude? This is the proof that Krsna is for everyone, and everyone is for Krsna. Try to understand this philosophy. Don’t be mislead. IT IS NOT A SECTARIAN RELIGION. IT IS THE FACT. (Arrival Lecture - Gainsville 29/7/71)

So that activity and karmis’ activity, there is difference. The karmi’s activity is on upadhi. “I am American,” “I am Indian,” “I am Hindu,” “I am Muslim,” “I am Christian.” With this upadhi, we are acting. But bhakti means without upadhi. Sarvopadhi-virnirmuktam. Activity without upadhi. Working not as American. Working not as Indian. Working not as Hindu. Working not as Muslim. That is sarvopadhi-vinirmuktah tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. If we think that “I am Christian,” “I am Hindu,” “I am American,” that is with upädhi. When we purely think that “We are...,” or “I am servant of Krsna. My only business is to satisfy Krsna,” that activity is called bhakti. If I become interested in some party, that is not... Sometimes people criticize these American and European devotees, that they think that “They are American devotee; we are Hindu devotee. There is difference.” This is not bhakti-marga. This is upadhi. Why you should think yourself as Hindu? Why you should think of others who have come from America as American? That is less intelligent. Krsna-bhakta...
Vaisnave jati-buddhih. If one thinks of Vaisnava as belonging to this class, this nation, he has no vision. Naraki. That is called naraki-buddhih. Vaisnave jati-buddhih arcye siladhir gurusu nara-matir vaisnave jati-buddhih. If we think the Deity as made of stone and made of wood, arcye sila-dhir; guruhu, nara-matih, if we accept spiritual master as ordinary human being; vaisnave jati-buddhih, and if we take a Vaisnava as belonging to America or Europe or India... No. They are transcendental. Neither the Deity in the temple is stone, NEITHER THE SPIRITUAL MASTER IS ORDINARY HUMAN BEING, NOR THE VAISNAVA BELONGS TO ANY CASTE. This vision is perfect vision. When you come to this vision, that is bhakti. Tat-paratvena nirmalam. A bhakta has to become purified. Tat-paratvena, being dovetailed with the service of tat, om tat sat. Tat-param. This is the process of devotional service. One should not be designated “I am this,” “I am that,” “I am that.” No. The world should unite. This Krsna consciousness movement is so nice that one should forget that he’s Indian or Hindu or Christian or American. Everything should unite as servant of Krsna. That is bhakti-marga. (NOD Class - Vrindavan 1/11/72)

Gopala Krsna: They are saying, they are saying we are not Hindus.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Gopala Krsna: They are saying this is not Hinduism.
Prabhupada: Hindus?, we are Krsnian. It they, if...
Hansaduta: Krsnans.
Prabhupada: Krsna, in the dictionary it is said, that Hindu God but we are claiming, that Krsnian, Krsna. Krsna conscious. Krsna conscious means “Godder than the Hindus.” When you say we are not Hindu that we are not restricted with the Hindi community. That is the meaning. Because Krsna says, “I am for everyone.” So why should we be restricted to the Hindi community. Krsna says sarva yonisu, “In all forms of life, I am the seed giving father.” Why he should be simply Hindu? This point should be stressed. Sarva yoni means eighty four million..., eighty, eighty, eight million four hundred thousands, all forms. Krsna is for all of them. We therefore, why Krsna should be restricted to the Hindu community? Hindus are included but Krsna is not restricted to Hindus. Krsna’s picture, that Bal Gopal. He’s embracing the calves. Krsna does not embrace only the gopis, He’s embracing the calves also. That is Krsna. He’s equal to everyone. Mah hi partha vyapasritya ye ’pi syuh papa-yonayah. Papa-yonayah, so many low-grade forms of life, they’re also His.... Devotees are part and parcel. Mamaivamso ji... Quote this: Krsna is not restricted to the Hindu. We say, “We are not Hindu,” means we are not.... We embrace everyone. We are not restricted to the Hindus. The so-called Christians, so-called Mohammedans, they.... We embrace everyone, and actually we are doing that. Why should we simply be compact within the limitation of Hindus. That is not our purpose. Then we would not have come to western countries. We actually spreading universal brotherhood. Krsna is the father and everyone our brother. We are claiming, all our fallen brothers to become Krsna conscious. This is our movement. Caitanya Mahaprabhu (said) prthivite ache yata nagaradi grama, this is our movement. Why you should be restricted, to the India, and amongst the Hindus. (Room Conv. - Vrindavana 2/11/76)

So sad-dharma required. The, in this material world the so-called dharmas, this Hindu dharma, Muslim dharma and Christian dharma and Buddhist dharma and so many... They are not sad-dharma. They are asad-dharma. “Because I am born in the family of a Christian, I am Christian.” “Because I am born in the family of Hindu, I am Hindu.” And next time I may (be) born in the family of a dog. There is no dharma. So these are not sad-dharma. These are all asad-dharma, for the time being. Asad means “that will not stay.” You are Hindu. How long you are Hindu? Say, fifty years. Or you are Indian. How long you are Indian? Say, fifty, sixty, hundred years. But again you have to become something else. That we do not know. We are working very hard, “I am Hindu,” “I am Muslim,” “I am Indian,” “I am American.” These upadhi. But the upadhi may be changed next moment. At any moment. So what is your real dharma? This is temporary dharma for the body. What is your real dharma? Real dharma is sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That is sad-dharma. That is sad-dharma. That will continue eternally. (SB Lect - Bombay 11/11/74)

This is the position. We are many, and God is one. So if we accept one God, then where is the chance of different religious system? God is one. God is neither Christian nor Hindu or Muslim or... No. God is God. Just like gold. Gold is gold. Either in the Hindu community, or Muslim community, gold is gold. Because gold is there in some Hindu community, nobody says “Hindu gold.” Does anybody say, “It is Hindu gold” or “It is Christian gold”? No. Gold is gold. Similarly, God is one. There is no “Hindu God” or “Muslim God” or “Christian God.” This is mistake. “We believe God in this way...,” that is nonsense. No. God is one, and you have to see what is the characteristic of God. Just like when it is gold, everyone wants to see whether it is actually gold or imitation gold. That we have to see. There cannot be Hindu gold, Muslim gold, Christian gold. No. Simply you have to see whether it is actually gold, acceptable. That should be the subject matter of theology, to know actually what is God and to understand what is our relationship with God. (SB Lecture - LA 26/6/75)

Prabhupada: Everyone should understand God and the relationship with God and act accordingly. Then it is perfect religion. And if there is no conception of God, no carrying out order of the God, that is not religion. That is cheating. But generally they do not accept God—still, he is stamping himself that “I am Hindu,” “I am Muslim,” “I am Christian.” He has no idea what is God, how to abide by His order, and they are fighting that “I am Christian and you are Hindu. Therefore we must fight.” This is going on. Nobody understands what is God. Pseudo religion. Practically there is no religion. If there is no government—you make your law; I make my law—then how there will be peace? That is the position. They do not understand what is God, and “I am Christian” or “Hindu” or “Mohammedan, so let us fight.” That’s all.
Dr. Kneupper: Do you think that there is a special way that Hinduism looks upon man’s place in the universe?
Prabhupada: The Hindu religion is a vague term. It is a vague term. It is not clear. It is not clear. Real term is, it is called, Vedic principle. Vedic principle. And in the Bhagavad-gita it is said: Vedic knowledge means to understand God. Vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. So anyone who tries to understand God, he is in the Vedic line. Veda means knowledge, so as you get the stock of knowledge, that is called Vedas. But as soon as we say Vedas, they think it is Hindu. Mathematics is a science. So any scientific man will accept mathematics. Where is the question of Hindu mathematics? Gold is gold. If it is in the hand of Hindu, it is Hindu gold? Hindu, Muslim gold? Gold is gold. When we give the Vedic knowledge, they think it is Hindu idea. (Room Conv. –Vrindavana 6/11/76)

So at the present moment, being entrapped by the material nature, we have accepted different types of dharmas. That is artificial. That is artificial. “I am Hindu,” “I am Muslim,” “I am Christian,” “I am Buddhist,” “I am this,” “I am that.” These are all in relationship with this body. Accidentally if I am born in a Hindu family, or Muslim family, or Christian family, I identify myself, “I am Hindu,” “I am Muslim,” “I am Christian.” But real identification is, as I have already explained to you, aham brahmasmi, I am Brahman. I am the spirit soul. (SB Lect. – Hyderebad 26/11/72)

Mahamsa: THEY WILL SAY THAT THIS KRSNA CULTURE IS HINDUISM.
Prabhupada: THEN HE’S A RASCAL. PROVE IT IN THE COURT. KRSNA IS NOT HINDUISM. NEVER.... Is there anything in the Bhagavad-gita that Krsna says, “I am for the Hindus or for the Indians”?
Acyutananda: The Hindu law is so elastic, anyone who calls himself a Hindu or who practices any branch...
Mahamsa: Or puts on tilaka.
Acyutananda: Puts on tilaka, he may have the lowest character or the highest standard, anyone, he will be all considered a Hindu.
Prabhupada: So this should be taken to court, on the Supreme Court.
Harikesa: But if there is no definition of Hindu, how can you prove...
Prabhupada: THERE IS NO HINDU. It is not.... THEREFORE WE ARE NOT HINDU.
Acyutananda: Well, they’ll say, “This is our definition. This is what we say a Hindu is.”
Prabhupada: Huh?
Acyutananda: The court says, “This is what we say a Hindu is. SO YOU’RE HINDUS.”
Prabhupada: NO, NO. And court can say anything, but then why not put it into the judgment of many judges?
Harikesa: Then we have to establish what is Hinduism...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: ...and what is Krsna consciousness.
Acyutananda: It is already established.
Prabhupada: You can define anything. That does not mean that your definition is perfect. Actually we have to.... Who...? Suppose Hindu. So who is not accepting Bhagavad-gita? But where is...? In the Bhagavad-gita where is the mention of “Hindu”? Hm? Krsna says that “I am the father of all living entities.” So WHY DO THEY SAY THAT THIS IS HINDUISM?
Acyutananda: “Well, all religions say that they are the best. Jesus Christ says, ‘Everyone who comes to me, they will get the grace of God.’ So the same thing. But still they are Christians and you are Hindus.”
Prabhupada: So this cannot stay in the court. Krsna’s instruction is not for the Hindus. Nowhere it is mentioned.
Tamala Krsna: The word “Hindu” doesn’t appear in the Vedas anywhere.
Acyutananda: Then why do you use in the Krsna consciousness the Hindu caste marks, Hindus caste marks and tilakas? This is all Hinduism.
Prabhupada: NO, THIS IS NOT HINDUISM. Appears like Hindu. Just like you appear like an Indian sannyasi, but you are not Indian.
Acyutananda: The judge is wearing a white wig and a British suit. He’s not British either.
Prabhupada: No, we are clearly stating Krsna consciousness.
Harikesa: Yes, but Krsna is a Hindu god.
Prabhupada: That is your definition. Krsna doesn’t say.
Harikesa: But my definition counts ’cause I’m in charge.
Prabhupada: You can do any nonsense. That is....
Therefore you have to be taken to the court, that “How you can...”
Tamala Krsna: But they are the court.
Prabhupada: “...talk like nonsense and do like nonsense? Then anyone can do any nonsense thing? Then who will control you?”
Harikesa: That’s the point.
Mahamsa: The chief justice himself was saying like that in Madras. Their opinion will come in their favor.
Prabhupada: No, they can give opinion, but there is supreme court. There is international court. We shall go...
Mahamsa: International court?
Gopala Krsna: That’s only for disputes between countries, international court.
Prabhupada: Yes, it is country—”We are American. They are forcing us to become a Hindu.” This is between country. You have to tackle with intelligence.
Mahamsa: It’s become a world issue.
Acyutananda: In most books about Hinduism they describe that Hinduism is a cult where they worship many gods and ultimately God is formless.
Prabhupada: No.
Acyutananda: So we are against that. Then we are not Hindus even philosophically according to that.
Prabhupada: Yes. We are against all so-called cheating religion. THE HINDUISM IS ALSO A CHEATING RELIGION. We are preaching Bhagavata, and Bhagavata beginning that “We have kicked out all cheating religion.” What is cheating religion? That one has to understand. And Bhagavata says, dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam:
[SB 6.3.19] “Religion means the order given by God.”
If you do not know who is God, “imperson,” then where is your religion? We have to tackle things.
Gopala Krsna: They will consult all the standard dictionaries about Krsna’s definition and all the...
Prabhupada: Dictionary is not the standard. The standard is the book itself. That is our preaching.
You may bring some dictionary made by some fools. No.
We have to take reference. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gita As It Is.
Acyutananda: Well, even Jesus Christ just said, “I am for all,” but there is Christianity.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is a fact. Either God or God’s representative, He is for everyone. Suhrdah sarva-bhutanam. That is the definition of sadhu.
Titikaavah karunikah suhrdah sarva-bhutanam. A saintly person..., as God is for everyone, a saintly person is for everyone. Why he should be for Hindu or Muslim or Christian? That is the definition of saintly person.
Suhrdah. Suhrdah means well-wisher. So either Christ or any Vaisnava, he is well-wisher for everyone.
[break] ...suhrdah sarva-bhutanam. We are preaching all over the world and they are appreciating.
Harikesa: So many others have preached Hinduism but have no result.
Prabhupada: No result. Why they should become Hindu?
Acyutananda: That sign is there, “Swami Vivekananda, the Hindu monk.”
Prabhupada: But who cares for Ramakrishna Mission?
Hindu monk, but who cares for the Ramakrishna Mission?
For the last eighty-five years they are working. How many Hindus they have made? Simply bogus propaganda.
They advertise that “We have made all Americans...”
But where the Americans? They picked up two American ladies, that’s all. Where is the Hindu sadhus eating meat? [break]…
Prabhupada: Foreign devotees, they are joining this movement not because it is a Hindu culture. They take it as a real spiritual culture. Otherwise why, for the last hundred, two hundred years, the Hindu sannyasis, yogis, were going there? Who did accept it? Did anybody? (Morning Walk - 08/01/76)

This led to a long discussion whether our ISKCON temples could also be taken over. If they could, it would be on the basis of their being "Hindu" temples. So Srila Prabhupada, in order to avoid any government interference, suggested that we register the temples as American property. Apart from that, he said WE ARE NOT HINDU. The word Hindu isn't in the Bhagavad-gita, and the teachings of Bhagavad-gita are for everyone, not just Hindus. SRILA PRABHUPADA STRONGLY EMPHASIZED THIS POINT AND EVEN SAID THAT WE COULD GO TO COURT TO PROVE WE ARE NOT HINDUS. (Conversation 6/1/76 Anbdhra Pradesh - Hari Sauri Dasa –ATD)

Mahesh: The other Swamiji, Swami Kaivalya does not know English. You have heard of Swami Kaivalya?
Prabhupada: No, what is his philosophy? He is Vaisnava?
Mahesh: Hmmm, I think he is not Vaisnava. But actually, in our Hindu religion, all paths are same and all is one.
Prabhupada: All is one? So we can just take your building?
Mahesh: Ummm. Actually, Swamiji, there are many Hindu families here in Kobe. They are all interested in seeing you. All have heard of the famous Hare Krsna Swamiji. And everyone will be coming tonight. If the program is successful, they can support one Hindu temple for your devotees to run in Kobe.
Prabhupada: WHAT IS THIS HINDU? HINDU MEANS HODGE-PODGE. All is one. This is nonsense. Where is the word “Hindu” mentioned in Sastra? In Bhagavad-gita? In Vedas? Anywhere? Where is this “Hindu” mentioned even one time? Anyplace? One place?
Mahesh: Ummm.
Prabhupada: [To Mr. Santanam.]: You are born in a brahmana family. Any one place? No, this Hindu is a name given by Mohammedans. They cannot pronounce Indus River, so they are calling those on the other side Hindus in their own pronunciation. You know this? [Pause.] You don’t know. But you can learn. To learn, one must approach a bona fide spiritual master and hear from him. This is the process. Tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya. We must serve him and inquire from him. Then he will train us to see the truth. By training we can develop.
M. Santanam: Swamiji, who is real guru?
Prabhupäda: A guru knows Krsna.
Premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena. His eyes are decorated with love of Krsna. He can see Krsna everywhere. Become trained by such a spiritual master, and then you will understand everything. WE ARE NOT HINDUS, AND WE ARE NOT TRAINING THESE BOYS TO BECOME HINDUS. We are training them to love Krsna, God. (SP Conversation Japan 1972 - Bhurijana Dasa MGM)

So this is the warm invitation of Krishna Consciousness. It has nothing to do with black or white, young or old, or believe me, Christian or Jew or Hindu or anything like that. We consider these to be as much a part of false ego—Christian, Hindu, Jew—as we do black, white, young, old, man or woman. Because they were delegated to this body—I'm born in a Christian family, I call myself a Christian; I'm born in a Hindu family, I call myself a Hindu—so because of this body I'm a Hindu, because of this body I'm a Jew, and if I was born a million years ago would I be a Hindu, Christian or Jew? No. But I'd still be a servant, I'd still have my consciousness. See? Suppose you're born a hundred thousand years from now? Are you going to be a Christian or a Hindu or a Jew? No. But you'll still have your consciousness, you'll still have to serve, and you'll still want to be happy.
(VISNUJANA SWAMI - Festival Address Oregon 1/6/75)

Kirtan Standards - Srila Prabhupada's Instructions

 
Prabhupada quotes regarding Kirtan standards and the public presentation of Krsna consciousness:

"My opinion is that it is not necessary for us to utilize these different musical talents for spreading Krsna Consciousness. I would rather see people follow strictly the path of Lord Caitanya and His Sankirtana devotees. We are using mrdanga, karatala, that is enough. We are not musicians. We are Krsna bhaktas. Therefore we do not stress so much importance on these different musical talents. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is God Himself. Had He thought it would have been better to spread Krsna Consciousness by another way He would have done so. But no, simply with mrdanga and karatala, traveling and chanting Hare Krsna, asking everyone to chant Hare Krsna, preaching simply Srimad-Bhagavatam philosophy, this is the process. There is no need for us to try and add anything to this simple method. It will only be a distraction." (Prabhupada Letter to Jagadish Pandit 74-12-28)

"I never thought about the audience. I was prepared to chant even if there were no men present to hear me. The principle of chanting is to glorify the Lord & not to attract a crowd. If Krishna hears nicely then he will ask some sincere devotee to gather in such place. Therefore be advised that thousands of centers may be started if we find out a sincere soul for each & every center." (Prabhupada Letter 67-11-12)

"Krishna kirtana is not meant for entertaining the public for demonstration of arts. It is dynamic service to the Lord. We do not therefore mind so much about the artistic presentation of Krishna kirtana but we want to see how much a devotee is satisfying the Supreme Will." (Prabhupada Letter to Jadurani 67-12-12)

"Practicing is already done by kirtana. It is not required for us to become artists. Our main point is service to Krishna, not to please an audience. We shall not divert our attention too much to adjustment of musical sounds. People should not misunderstood that we are a band of musical artists. They must know that we are devotees of Krishna. Our devotional practice and purity shall be so strong that wherever we chant there will be immediately an impression in the audience for devotion to Krishna." (Prabhupada Letter to Tamala Krishna 69-10-30)

"Our process is to show Krishna Consciousness as it is, not as others want to see it. By showing KC in this way, you are making the thing less important. It is not that we should change to accommodate the public, but that we should change the public to accommodate us.. If we simply present Krishna Consciousness in a serious and attractive way, without need to resort to fashionable slogans or tricks, that is sufficient. Our unique asset is our purity. No one any where can match it. That will be noticed eventually and appreciated, as long as we do not diminish or neglect the highest standard of purity in performing our routine work, not that we require to display or announce ourselves in very clever ways to get attention. No, our pure standard is enough. Let us stand on that basis." (Prabhupada Letter to Yogesvara 71-12-28)

"So far the Road Show and this Yoga Village are concerned, these things should be stopped. Simply perform our kirtana. If we divert our attention in this way, the whole thing will gradually deteriorate.. All these things are nonsense inventions. Such inventing spirit will ruin our this movement. People may come to see, some will become devotees, but such devotees will not stay because they are attracted by some show and not by the real thing or spiritual life according to the standard of Lord Caitanya. Our standard is to have kirtana, start temples. What is this "Road Show" and "Yoga Village?" It will be another hippie edition. Gradually the Krishna Consciousness idea will evaporate: another change, another change, every day another change. Stop all this. Simply have kirtana, nothing else. Don't manufacture ideas." (Prabhupada Letter to Sudama 72-11-5)

"So far your road-show is concerned, we are not meant for giving performances, we are simple kirtana men. There must always be kirtana going on wherever we travel, and nothing else. In this connection refer to the GBC letter which will be sent to you shortly by Karandhara and Syamasundara." (Prabhupada letter to Kirtanananda 72-6-25)

*"One night there was a darsana with one musician. I never got the understanding whether this was a person coming to Krsna consciousness or whether this was already a devotee. I always thought it was someone coming to Krsna consciousness that wanted to use their western rock and roll guitar style in service to Lord Caitanya, and Prabhupada was very adamant, and the guy kept bringing the point up two or three times and finally Prabhupada said "No!" and he pointed, there was this beautiful picture of Panca-tattva on the wall of his room. He said "You see Mahaprabhu; kartalas and mrdanga, that is all." (Caturatma das: Memories of Srila Prabhupada DVD 51)

"Regarding your question of dancing-show, whatever it may be, it may not deviate from the real Krishna Consciousness program. We are Hari Kirtana men, that's all. We can attract people by some gorgeous show, but inside there must be strict purity and seriousness, otherwise, we shall be attracted by the gorgeous show only...here in London they had arranged one program of lecturing by me along with a recital by one man playing on the vina just to attract attention to my speaking. I am not in approval of such arrangements, and it will be dangerous thing in future if we begin this type of program just to attract the masses. Already I see this happening practically all over the Society, so better we stop it now and get ourselves firmly on the track chalked out for us by Lord Caitanya. We are simply Sankirtana men, our program is chanting, dancing, distributing prasadam, and speaking high philosophy, that's all." (Prabhupada Letter to Madhudvisa. 72-07-08)

"In India the system is that people go to see the Jagannatha Deity. The Deity is not very beautiful from the artistic point of view, but still people attend by the thousands. That sentiment is required. Similarly with our kirtana we are only using drums and karatalas, but people come to the point of ecstasy. It is not the ornamentation, it is the ecstasy. This ecstasy is awakened by sravanam kirtanam by devotees." (Prabhupada Letter to Dr. Wolf 76-01-29)

"We should not try to become a very popular musical party. Music is one of our items for chanting, but we are not musicians. We should always remember this fact. We take advantage of the typewriter but that doesn't mean we are professional typists." (Prabhupada Letter 69-07-02)

"The chanting is very effective. Along with tampura and mrdanga played very rhythmically, let them chant. Perform this musical demonstration and sell books as far as possible, and feasting." (Prabhupada Letter to Harikesa 76-10-28)

"Another proposal is that I want to form a sankirtana party in which two members will play mrdanga, eight will play the cymbals, two will play on tamboura, and one on harmonium. Besides that there will be the leader of the party. This party will be so trained that exhibitions of our chanting and dancing along with distribution of prasadam will be performed on a stage and for this performance we will sell tickets to the public. It will be known as a spiritual movement". (Prabhupada Letter to Hamsaduta 68-01-22)

"Regarding your question about kirtana, practically we are not concerned with the instruments. They are used sometimes to make it sweeter, but if we divert our attention for using the instruments more, that is not good. We can accept everything for Krishna's service, but not taking the risk of diverting attention to any other thing which will hinder our Krishna Consciousness. That should be our motto, or principle." (Prabhupada Letter to Jadurani 69-5-26)

"The harmonium may be played during bhajan if there is someone who can play melodiously. But it is not for kirtan and aratik." (SP Letter to Bahudak 76-01-11)

"With regard to your question about Bengali style kirtana and mrdanga playing, one or two styles is best. To introduce more styles is not good. It will become an encumbrance. Who is that Krsna das Babaji who is teaching? If we introduce so much emphasis on style of kirtana, then simply imitation will go on. Devotional emotion is the main thing. If we give stress to instrument and style then attention will be diverted to the style. That will be spiritual loss." (Prabhupada Letter to Satsvarupa 76-06-30)

"It is to be understood that when Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu chanted and danced, He did so by the influence of the pleasure potency of the spiritual world. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu never considered the holy name of the Lord to be a material vibration, nor does any pure devotee mistake the chanting of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra to be a material musical manifestation. Lord Caitanya never tried to be the master of the holy name; rather He taught us how to be servants of the holy name. If one chants the holy name of the Lord just to make a show, not knowing the secret of success, he may increase his bile secretion, but he will never attain perfection in chanting the holy name." (C.C. Adi 7.95-96 p)

"When disciples do not stick to the principle of accepting the order of their spiritual master, immediately there are two opinions. Any opinion different from the opinion of the spiritual master is useless. One cannot infiltrate materially concocted ideas into spiritual advancement. That is deviation. There is no scope for adjusting spiritual advancement to material ideas."
(Caitanya-caritamrta Adi 12.9 purport)

"The order of the spiritual master is the active principle in spiritual life. Anyone who disobeys the order of the spiritual master immediately becomes useless." (Caitanya-caritamrta Adi 12.10)

"The service of the spiritual master is essential. If there is no chance to serve the spiritual master directly, a devotee should serve him by remembering his instructions. There is no difference between the spiritual master's instructions and the spiritual master himself. In his absence, therefore, his words of direction should be the pride of the disciple." (Caitanya-caritamrta Adi 1.35 Purport)

"We will establish hundreds of temples, and they will all be very opulent. But if we do not follow the instruction of the Spiritual Master, they will just be showbottle. Do you know what showbottle means? It means colored water in a bottle which looks just like medicine, but which does not work." (Room conversation NY July 1970)

Rama Govinda dasa: Is the greatest offence to disobey the guru?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes is the first offence. Gurur avajna sruti-sastra nindanam. If you accept guru and again disobey him, then what is your position? You are no a gentleman. You promise before guru, before Krishna, before fire, that I shall obey your order, I shall execute this, and again you do not do this. Then you are no even a gentleman, what to speak about devotee. This is common sense. (75-2-11)

Paramahamsa: Our position in preaching should be to encourage people in all respects to associate with us.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Paramahamsa: That means sometimes we might have to compromise in certain ways.
Prabhupada: Why compromise? You don't compromise. Then you associate with him. If you make compromise, then you associate with him. Then gradually you'll also go down. When we, when we see some person, we do not associate with him, but we give him chance to associate with me. Why you should make compromise? What is the reason? If you know something positively, why should you make compromise? When people come to talk with me, see me, I don't make any compromise. Do I make any compromise?
Devotees: No.
(Morning Walk Paris 74-7-11)

"Real success is how one is faithful to his guru. That is real success." (Lecture, October 4, 1976, Vrindavan)

"To honor the spiritual master means to carry out his instructions word for word." (SB 3.24.12 purport)


ISKCON London

ISKCON Bangalore

Akshaya Patra Jaipur

ISKCON Melbourne

Hare Krishna Band (India)

ISKCON Pattaya Thailand


Please see: Srila Prabhupada - No Compromise

PADA: "Prahlad wants to destroy the entire Krishna religion!"

Timothy Lie



Tim Lee / PADA / krishna1008 January 20, 2014:

[Thanks **** prabhu, Thats fine, my point is, before we side with people like Prahlad, we have to look at his Illuminati and other bogus links he is posting..]

Prahlad Das: What "Illuminati' and other bogus links"? Tim blocked me on FaceBook months ago, so he cannot even see what I am posting.

[..his association with GBC clones like Bhakta das..]

Prahlad Das: I have NO association with Bhakta Das: http://padaproblems.blogspot.in/2014/01/bhakta-dasa-missing-link.html

[..etc..]

Prahlad Das: Who is "etc."?

[..and the fact Prahlad wants to destroy the entire Krishna religion by siding with people who say the religion teaches it should kill and chop up child molesting victims. And they sent that odious material to the Dallas courts and New York Times -- to attempt to legally prove that this is what Krishna teaches, and they wanted to prove that legally in Dallas courts. They publicly want to advertise the Krishna religion as a child chopping program, and legally prove that by sending that idea to the Dallas Courts / New York Times etc., they want to destroy the entire religion in public. Fortunately, even karmis know that Krishna does not teach that He wants to have to molested children killed and chopped up, but that is what they want to have promoted in Krishna's name, legally and in court, and in the New York Times etc. They want to legally prove this is a child chopper cult, and they are angry that this did not happen, their plan to destroy the religion by painting as a child murdering cult has not worked, so they are angry. Even Windle Turley, as much as he does not understand things, even he knows Krishna does not teach chopping up children like these guys are teaching in public, New York Times, in court etc..]

Prahlad Das: Complete nonsense. There was NEVER even any "child-chopping" letter to begin with!: http://padaproblems.blogspot.in/2014/01/conversation-about-iskcon-children.html

[..We have to look at the fact Prahlad is living in Vrndavana and complains he is alone and without association..]

Prahlad Das: Is it now a sin to choose to live alone in Vrindavan for some time? I am not complaining. In fact i consider myself very fortunate to have such an opportunity.

[..He cannot do anything except try to take down the ritviks and destroy their preaching. The riviks will have faults, agreed, but before we take them down, we might look at what happens if that is done, then we will have people wandering around with no association, no temples, no programs, no nothing, like Prahlad..]

Prahlad Das: How am I trying to "take down the ritviks and destroy their preaching"?.. Oh, I'm not. That is your job.

[..Right now Bangalore has some books distribution with brahmacharis, just like we had in the old days. They are printing and distributing original books and etc., they are preaching, they are making devotees, and if we assist in taking them down, then we will be another version of Prahlad, we will have nothing. And if that program fails Prahlad would be happy. That is my point. I am not defending anyone's faults, I am saying that if all we do is point to other's faults all the time, then we will have nothing, as Prahlad does..]

Prahlad Das: All Tim Lee has done for the last 30 years is point out other's faults. And if he cannot find any faults he just makes them up!: http://padaproblems.blogspot.in/2014/01/unproven-crazy-accusations-by-tim-lee.html

[..In sum, he should not be our leader or example of how to do things..]

Prahlad Das: I have no desire to become anyone's leader. I am just trying to follow Prabhupada's example of how to do things and encouraging other Prabhupadanugas to do the same. Deviating from Prabhupada's instructions will be the cause of downfall for the Prabhupadanuga 'ritviks'.

[..Bangalore branch temple here has never had any rock and roll music, its not their main emphasis, this whole issue has been overblown by a person who wants to take the whole thing down. He sifts through tons of material to find one fault and he goes ballistic on that, to take us all down, he is not a person we should be promoting, that's my point. ys pd]

Prahlad Das: Who is promoting me? I am not trying to "take the whole thing down". I am just concerned about a few deviations from Srila Prabhupada's instructions that are taking place in Bangalore, as in the rest of ISKCON: http://padaproblems.blogspot.in/2014/01/strong-preaching-was-essence.html

'Strong Preaching was the Essence'

Srila Prabhupada: 'No Compromise'

"Srila Prabhupada was not afraid to expose those who cheat, lie and mislead people in Kali Yuga. He was not afraid to speak the truth about our demoniac leaders and demoniac, horrible, misguided civilization. As devotees, we are supposed to be following Srila Prabhupada and reading his books.."

"Abuse, cover-ups, deviations and hypocrisy are ever-expanding at a fast rate in Kali Yuga, in most institutions and religious organizations. ISKCON has let down its guard to this grave danger. Truths which are lacking in governments and spiritual societies are now sometimes also lacking in ISKCON. This is the truth. When leaders and organizations become corrupted, whistleblowers who cannot tolerate corruption speak out, even if it means they are demonized by the ones they expose. That's the price you pay for truth in Kali Yuga.."

"Demons have infiltrated ISKCON and tossed out Srila Prabhupada's exact, strict instructions for His ISKCON, and now we see a changed ISKCON… Prabhupada's preaching is compromised in ISKCON. Prabhupada disciples are in danger of being banned for speaking his truth of His movement… simply for speaking his words. For example, if we speak about the Women's Lib movement being bogus, now we are labeled 'Taliban'! Makes one wonder seriously what kind of people join ISKCON, then disrespect Srila Prabhupada's exact words and instructions, and cause dissent and doubt and disrespect for his words. They question him and do not take seriously his words on so many topical issues. They refute the Vedic versions, but still call themselves 'ISKCON devotees'?."

"Hindu festivals now abound in ISKCON (not Prabhupada's authorized programs). Useless, embarrassing New Age yoga exercises and rock music programs are held in the temples. Contaminating mayavada elements are being introduced into ISKCON. Bogus sahajiya Bhakti Fest festivals, supported by the very same leaders who fail to renew Book Distribution, Harinams and the Bhakta programs in the USA. Book Distribution is reduced, compromised everywhere in America. Harinams almost vanished.. little devotee making, etc., etc. And a total disrespect and disregard for those who point this truth out.."

 (Jaya Madhava Das)

Full article here: http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/07-13/editorials10342.htm


Various non-devotional activities at ISKCON Durban Rathayatra

RELATED VIDEOS:

Bollywood Dancing at ISKCON Melbourne Rathayatra:



Hippy Mayavadi 'Kirtan' at 'Bhakti' Fest.:



Heavy Metal & Disco 'Kirtans' at ISKCON Bangalore:

Rock 'Kirtan' at Akshaya Patra Jaipur:



Clownish 'Hari-Nama' ISKCON London:



'Festival of Colours' Rave Parties:



Break-dancing in the temple

Ratha Yatra Durban



ISKCON Calgary - Krishna Rap (& 'monkey-dancing' with backs turned to deities)



RELATED ARTICLES:

'Calculated Mission Drift': http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/05-14/editorials11709.htm

'Conglomeration Leads to Spiritual Loss': http://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/btp39_ISKCON_south_africa_durban.html

'How the (ISKCON) West was Lost': http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/11-13/editorials10974.htm

'The Commercialisation of ISKCON UK': http://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/commercialisation_of_iskcon.htm

'The 'Kirtaniya' Infestation in ISKCON': http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/02-13/editorials9820.htm

''Spiritual Slut' and Company: A Corrupting Influence': http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/08-12/editorials8971.htm

'It's Not the Same, So Change the Name!':
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/01-14/editorials11329.htm