Kirtan Standards - Srila Prabhupada's Instructions

 
Prabhupada quotes regarding Kirtan standards and the public presentation of Krsna consciousness:

"My opinion is that it is not necessary for us to utilize these different musical talents for spreading Krsna Consciousness. I would rather see people follow strictly the path of Lord Caitanya and His Sankirtana devotees. We are using mrdanga, karatala, that is enough. We are not musicians. We are Krsna bhaktas. Therefore we do not stress so much importance on these different musical talents. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is God Himself. Had He thought it would have been better to spread Krsna Consciousness by another way He would have done so. But no, simply with mrdanga and karatala, traveling and chanting Hare Krsna, asking everyone to chant Hare Krsna, preaching simply Srimad-Bhagavatam philosophy, this is the process. There is no need for us to try and add anything to this simple method. It will only be a distraction." (Prabhupada Letter to Jagadish Pandit 74-12-28)

"I never thought about the audience. I was prepared to chant even if there were no men present to hear me. The principle of chanting is to glorify the Lord & not to attract a crowd. If Krishna hears nicely then he will ask some sincere devotee to gather in such place. Therefore be advised that thousands of centers may be started if we find out a sincere soul for each & every center." (Prabhupada Letter 67-11-12)

"Krishna kirtana is not meant for entertaining the public for demonstration of arts. It is dynamic service to the Lord. We do not therefore mind so much about the artistic presentation of Krishna kirtana but we want to see how much a devotee is satisfying the Supreme Will." (Prabhupada Letter to Jadurani 67-12-12)

"Practicing is already done by kirtana. It is not required for us to become artists. Our main point is service to Krishna, not to please an audience. We shall not divert our attention too much to adjustment of musical sounds. People should not misunderstood that we are a band of musical artists. They must know that we are devotees of Krishna. Our devotional practice and purity shall be so strong that wherever we chant there will be immediately an impression in the audience for devotion to Krishna." (Prabhupada Letter to Tamala Krishna 69-10-30)

"Our process is to show Krishna Consciousness as it is, not as others want to see it. By showing KC in this way, you are making the thing less important. It is not that we should change to accommodate the public, but that we should change the public to accommodate us.. If we simply present Krishna Consciousness in a serious and attractive way, without need to resort to fashionable slogans or tricks, that is sufficient. Our unique asset is our purity. No one any where can match it. That will be noticed eventually and appreciated, as long as we do not diminish or neglect the highest standard of purity in performing our routine work, not that we require to display or announce ourselves in very clever ways to get attention. No, our pure standard is enough. Let us stand on that basis." (Prabhupada Letter to Yogesvara 71-12-28)

"So far the Road Show and this Yoga Village are concerned, these things should be stopped. Simply perform our kirtana. If we divert our attention in this way, the whole thing will gradually deteriorate.. All these things are nonsense inventions. Such inventing spirit will ruin our this movement. People may come to see, some will become devotees, but such devotees will not stay because they are attracted by some show and not by the real thing or spiritual life according to the standard of Lord Caitanya. Our standard is to have kirtana, start temples. What is this "Road Show" and "Yoga Village?" It will be another hippie edition. Gradually the Krishna Consciousness idea will evaporate: another change, another change, every day another change. Stop all this. Simply have kirtana, nothing else. Don't manufacture ideas." (Prabhupada Letter to Sudama 72-11-5)

"So far your road-show is concerned, we are not meant for giving performances, we are simple kirtana men. There must always be kirtana going on wherever we travel, and nothing else. In this connection refer to the GBC letter which will be sent to you shortly by Karandhara and Syamasundara." (Prabhupada letter to Kirtanananda 72-6-25)

*"One night there was a darsana with one musician. I never got the understanding whether this was a person coming to Krsna consciousness or whether this was already a devotee. I always thought it was someone coming to Krsna consciousness that wanted to use their western rock and roll guitar style in service to Lord Caitanya, and Prabhupada was very adamant, and the guy kept bringing the point up two or three times and finally Prabhupada said "No!" and he pointed, there was this beautiful picture of Panca-tattva on the wall of his room. He said "You see Mahaprabhu; kartalas and mrdanga, that is all." (Caturatma das: Memories of Srila Prabhupada DVD 51)

"Regarding your question of dancing-show, whatever it may be, it may not deviate from the real Krishna Consciousness program. We are Hari Kirtana men, that's all. We can attract people by some gorgeous show, but inside there must be strict purity and seriousness, otherwise, we shall be attracted by the gorgeous show only...here in London they had arranged one program of lecturing by me along with a recital by one man playing on the vina just to attract attention to my speaking. I am not in approval of such arrangements, and it will be dangerous thing in future if we begin this type of program just to attract the masses. Already I see this happening practically all over the Society, so better we stop it now and get ourselves firmly on the track chalked out for us by Lord Caitanya. We are simply Sankirtana men, our program is chanting, dancing, distributing prasadam, and speaking high philosophy, that's all." (Prabhupada Letter to Madhudvisa. 72-07-08)

"In India the system is that people go to see the Jagannatha Deity. The Deity is not very beautiful from the artistic point of view, but still people attend by the thousands. That sentiment is required. Similarly with our kirtana we are only using drums and karatalas, but people come to the point of ecstasy. It is not the ornamentation, it is the ecstasy. This ecstasy is awakened by sravanam kirtanam by devotees." (Prabhupada Letter to Dr. Wolf 76-01-29)

"We should not try to become a very popular musical party. Music is one of our items for chanting, but we are not musicians. We should always remember this fact. We take advantage of the typewriter but that doesn't mean we are professional typists." (Prabhupada Letter 69-07-02)

"The chanting is very effective. Along with tampura and mrdanga played very rhythmically, let them chant. Perform this musical demonstration and sell books as far as possible, and feasting." (Prabhupada Letter to Harikesa 76-10-28)

"Another proposal is that I want to form a sankirtana party in which two members will play mrdanga, eight will play the cymbals, two will play on tamboura, and one on harmonium. Besides that there will be the leader of the party. This party will be so trained that exhibitions of our chanting and dancing along with distribution of prasadam will be performed on a stage and for this performance we will sell tickets to the public. It will be known as a spiritual movement". (Prabhupada Letter to Hamsaduta 68-01-22)

"Regarding your question about kirtana, practically we are not concerned with the instruments. They are used sometimes to make it sweeter, but if we divert our attention for using the instruments more, that is not good. We can accept everything for Krishna's service, but not taking the risk of diverting attention to any other thing which will hinder our Krishna Consciousness. That should be our motto, or principle." (Prabhupada Letter to Jadurani 69-5-26)

"The harmonium may be played during bhajan if there is someone who can play melodiously. But it is not for kirtan and aratik." (SP Letter to Bahudak 76-01-11)

"With regard to your question about Bengali style kirtana and mrdanga playing, one or two styles is best. To introduce more styles is not good. It will become an encumbrance. Who is that Krsna das Babaji who is teaching? If we introduce so much emphasis on style of kirtana, then simply imitation will go on. Devotional emotion is the main thing. If we give stress to instrument and style then attention will be diverted to the style. That will be spiritual loss." (Prabhupada Letter to Satsvarupa 76-06-30)

"It is to be understood that when Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu chanted and danced, He did so by the influence of the pleasure potency of the spiritual world. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu never considered the holy name of the Lord to be a material vibration, nor does any pure devotee mistake the chanting of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra to be a material musical manifestation. Lord Caitanya never tried to be the master of the holy name; rather He taught us how to be servants of the holy name. If one chants the holy name of the Lord just to make a show, not knowing the secret of success, he may increase his bile secretion, but he will never attain perfection in chanting the holy name." (C.C. Adi 7.95-96 p)

"When disciples do not stick to the principle of accepting the order of their spiritual master, immediately there are two opinions. Any opinion different from the opinion of the spiritual master is useless. One cannot infiltrate materially concocted ideas into spiritual advancement. That is deviation. There is no scope for adjusting spiritual advancement to material ideas."
(Caitanya-caritamrta Adi 12.9 purport)

"The order of the spiritual master is the active principle in spiritual life. Anyone who disobeys the order of the spiritual master immediately becomes useless." (Caitanya-caritamrta Adi 12.10)

"The service of the spiritual master is essential. If there is no chance to serve the spiritual master directly, a devotee should serve him by remembering his instructions. There is no difference between the spiritual master's instructions and the spiritual master himself. In his absence, therefore, his words of direction should be the pride of the disciple." (Caitanya-caritamrta Adi 1.35 Purport)

"We will establish hundreds of temples, and they will all be very opulent. But if we do not follow the instruction of the Spiritual Master, they will just be showbottle. Do you know what showbottle means? It means colored water in a bottle which looks just like medicine, but which does not work." (Room conversation NY July 1970)

Rama Govinda dasa: Is the greatest offence to disobey the guru?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes is the first offence. Gurur avajna sruti-sastra nindanam. If you accept guru and again disobey him, then what is your position? You are no a gentleman. You promise before guru, before Krishna, before fire, that I shall obey your order, I shall execute this, and again you do not do this. Then you are no even a gentleman, what to speak about devotee. This is common sense. (75-2-11)

Paramahamsa: Our position in preaching should be to encourage people in all respects to associate with us.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Paramahamsa: That means sometimes we might have to compromise in certain ways.
Prabhupada: Why compromise? You don't compromise. Then you associate with him. If you make compromise, then you associate with him. Then gradually you'll also go down. When we, when we see some person, we do not associate with him, but we give him chance to associate with me. Why you should make compromise? What is the reason? If you know something positively, why should you make compromise? When people come to talk with me, see me, I don't make any compromise. Do I make any compromise?
Devotees: No.
(Morning Walk Paris 74-7-11)

"Real success is how one is faithful to his guru. That is real success." (Lecture, October 4, 1976, Vrindavan)

"To honor the spiritual master means to carry out his instructions word for word." (SB 3.24.12 purport)


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Please see: Srila Prabhupada - No Compromise

Pratyatosa Dasa and his Anti-Prabhupada Ideas

The Feminist & The Freemason?

Pratyatosa Dasa presents himself as a senior 'ritvik' Prabhupadanuga... but he still supports his wife Urmila in her bid to become ISKCON's first female Diksha Guru! He also continues to argue that Srila Prabhupada was wrong and that the USA did go to the moon! And now he is supporting Hridayananda's 'Krishna West' deviation! Anyway, he has blocked us on FaceBook, as have his cohorts Tim Lee & William Acbsp. Why are they hiding?

Pratyatosa Dasa (ACBSP) November 19, 2012:
"I still stand by every word of what I wrote on this subject more than 9 years ago":
First Female Diksha Guru: http://www.vnn.org/editorials/ET0309/ET20-8357.html

Affirmative Action Urmila: http://prabhupadavision.com/2012/11/affirmative-action/

"This moon landing issue is Krishna's trick to separate the blind followers from those who use their God given intelligence/common sense in the service of God (Krishna)." Ys, Pratyatosa Dasa
Srila Prabhupada A Conditioned Soul?: http://harekrishnamalaysia.com/KRSNAinsight/2009/07/30/srila-prabhupada-a-conditioned-soul/

17 reasons to Bring Krishna West to Houghton, Michigan, USA: http://iskcon.us/pratyatosa/bring-krishna-west-houghton-michigan-usa/

"I'm convinced that if it weren't for the way in which Puranjana presented the relevant facts to the high powered lawyer, Windle Turley, the child abuse lawsuit, which reduced the number of gurukuli suicides almost to nil, would have never gotten off the ground. Therefore, I will be forever grateful to him for that reason alone." Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa (19/12/10)

Yes, it was Pratyatosa, along with Puranjana (Tim Lee) and Nandini (Nori Muster), who compiled, supported and presented the lawsuit which blamed Srila Prabhupada for the Gurukuli child-abuse!

"No, I was never a member of the Freemasons. I didn't even know that my father was ever a member until I read his obituary! But I did have a Top-Secret security clearance when I was a young Navy officer stationed in Washington DC in 1968-69, so put that in your pipe and smoke it! :-)" Ys, Pratyatosa Dasa (13/10/13)

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UPDATE: Pratyatosa is now criticizing Prabhupada for making 'mistakes' such as referring to West Virginia as New Virginia. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/istagosthi/3yMvCrRyoa4

'Shills and the Owning of Truth' by Krishna Kirtan Das

One thing that becomes evident quickly is how Puranjana's (Tim Lee/PADA/krishna1008) style of communication only benefits the bad guys, Alex Jones style. I have personally banned Tim Lee from my FaceBook wall long ago, and he knows why.

What kind of tactic is this? I don't care to find out who these guys really are (I highly suspect), but I will say this.

The manipulative individuals in this atheistic society running behind the scenes know well what is really going on from the very early beginning. Since they know that the truth can not be hidden, they come in early and appropriate themselves of it (own the narrative); in other words, become the 'owners' of the truth, start disseminating actual truth and subsequently gaining some credibility, but then later start to mix lies and misinformation within their material. And there is one key element: focus only on what's bad but never offer tangible solutions and never show interest in engaging in any type of honest dialog with others who may challenge their tone, in fact attack them instead. In other words, Cointel: Infiltrate your group, create disruption, and run off the reasonable pacifists within the group. That way the actually good and sincere can never influence or speak.

Not only that, but the Alex Jones style is all very well known now in all circles. That guy has been totally exposed as a hateful shill.

Anyway, so what ends up happening? That kind of approach actually ends up waking up some people in the course of their history, but for the most part alienating a whole host of others, because most thoughtful people and innocent objective truth seekers (which is the majority), are not interested in listening CONSTANTLY (I say constantly) to words such as "molester-messiahs, penis, child-chopping, homosexual pedophiles, penetrating this and that, kill, kill, kill, etc." on a constant basis. All things which may be true to a certain extent but the message carries a special mix: the CONSTANT endless tirade of hate. Not that some of it may not be justified, but the incessant use of non-objectivity is exactly their ultimate goal and objective. Tim Lee's record for instance shows precisely this.

This gets people, who don't see their game, divided and alienated (or accepting and partaking of his hate, great isn't it?), or hating the messenger and subsequently the message, or altogether dismissing any real objective facts, or worse yet: not learning anything at all and simply going away. Back to sleep!...

What motivates them to act in this way? Very simple. It's just a way to block the DOOR from the massive influx of the genuine who are interested in truth, which is a river flow. See, most people have 'normal' lives, are reasonable, therefore you must know HOW to talk with them, not simply WHAT to tell them. But instead what they do is simply alienate everyone on purpose, stealthy done sometimes over long periods of time.

So even within the awakened group of individuals, what happens? When such people are given the microphone and/or own it, everyone spends their time on the so-called 'justified' hate being spilled and not enough time on what really matters, which is the truth as it SHOULD be spoken and presented!

Tim Lee's material is a perfect example of hateful speech going on for decades.

My research informs me that this all simply a tactic, documented by many others in all branches of truth movements. If they were actually interested in truth, everyone would (and can) use a little more discretion in their manner of speech. Besides, all the 'hate' that needed to be said, has been already said NUMEROUS times. When is it ever going to stop? In the view of the shill it should never stop!

Over the years I did wake up to some of the things going around by reading Puranjana's material, but my reading of it was just enough to extract what I needed from it. His tone actually alienated me so much (it never changed) that I had considered him incoherent and unqualified to be speaking. His so-called leadership in these matters actually made me stay away from it all.

Swimming the river upstream can get pretty intense, because while learning the truth, being confronted with hard evidence, you nevertheless find that who is out there representing such evidence are elements who carry the tone and choice of presentation on par with the satanic urban dictionary.

As for myself, I never took him as some kind of superhero. I always felt that if I wanted to learn the truth I would have to read and learn from all, even the enemy's material. In other words, I had to think for myself, research for myself.

I would dare say that placing Puranjana (Tim Lee) as some kind of hero is simply fanatic excitement on the part of a newcomer, as if he/she has finally found their messiah. Not only that, but if Puranjana was for real he would humble himself and not be constantly bragging about what he claims he did, how much he did, or how incredible he thinks he is. (eg. saving the ex-Gurukulis from a 'suicide-epidemic).

All super heroic acts? Not really. His so-called heroic act in drumming up the Gurukuli lawsuit, simply contributed to something which was actually drafted and designed to further destroy ISKCON from within and from without, both sides cooperating from their respective positions.

Puranjana did alright, although I still suspect him of either having lack of communication etiquette (incompetence) or of working for the bad guys, likely both. Alex Jones did alright too, just like all the other 'truther' shills, including one of the most thoughtful and eloquent, namely David Icke, and others. All rascals!

(Krishna Kirtan)

'Vani and Vapuh' - Srila Prabhupada

There are two ways of association - by vani and by vapuh. Vani means words and vapuh means physical presence. Physical presence is sometimes appreciable and sometimes not, but Vani continues to exist eternally. Therefore, one must take advantage of the Vani, not the physical presence. (CC, Antya 5 Conclusion)

Next you ask if I am present in my picture and form? Yes. In form as well as in teachings. To carry out the teachings of guru is more important than to worship the form, but none of them should be neglected. Form is called vapu and teachings are called vani. Both should be worshiped. Vani is more important than vapu." (Srila Prabhupada Letter Ahmedabad 14 December, 1972)

Therefore we should take advantage of the Vani, not the physical presence. (Letter to Suci Devi Dasi, 4/11/75)

I shall remain your personal guidance, physically present or not physically present, as I am getting guidance from my Guru Maharaja. (Room Conversation, Vrindavan, 14/7/77)

Physical presence is immaterial. Presence of the transcendental sound received from the Spiritual Master should be the guidance of life. That will make our spiritual life successful. If you feel very strongly about my absence you may place my pictures on my sitting places and this will be source of inspiration for you. (Letter to Brahmananda and other students, 19/1/67)

But always remember that I am always with you. As you are always thinking of me, I am always thinking of you also. Although physically we are not together, we are not separated spiritually. So we should be concerned only with this spiritual connection. (Letter to Gaurasundara, 13/11/69)

So we should associate by vibration, and not by the physical presence. That is real association. (Lectures SB, 68/08/18)

There are two conceptions, the physical conception and the vibrational conception. The physical conception is temporary. The vibrational conception is eternal.[...] When we feel separation from Krsna or the Spirirual Master, we should just try to remember their words or instructions, and we will no longer feel that separation. Such association with Krsna and the Spiritual Master should be association by vibration not physical presence. That is real association. (Elevation to Krsna Consciousness, (BBT 1973), Page 57)

It is sometimes misunderstood that if one has to associate with persons engaged in devotional service, he will not be able to solve the economic problem. To answer this argument, it is described here that one has to associate with liberated persons not directly, physically, but by understanding, through philosophy and logic, the problems of life. (SB 3:31:48 P)

I am always with you. Never mind if I am physically absent. (Letter to Jayananda, 16/9/67)

Paramananda: We're always feeling your presence very strongly, Srila Prabhupada, simply by your teachings and your instructions. We're always meditating on your instructions.
Srila Prabhupada: Thank you. That is the real presence. Physical presence is not important. (Room Conversation, Vrndavana, 6/10/77)

You write that you have desire to avail of my association again, but why do you forget that you are always in association with me? When you are helping my missionary activities I am always thinking of you, and you are always thinking of me . That is real association. Just like I am always thinking of my Guru Maharaja at every moment, although he is not physically present, and because I am trying to serve him to my best capacity, I am sure he is helping me by his spiritual blessings. So there are two kinds of association: physical and preceptorial. Physical association is not so important as preceptorial association. (Letter to Govinda Dasi, 18/8/69)

As far as my blessing is concerned, it does not require my physical presence. If you are chanting Hare Krsna there, and following my instructions, reading the books, taking only Krsna prasadam etc., then there is no question of your not receiving the blessings of Lord Caitanya, whose mission I am humbly trying to push on. (Letter to Bala Krsna, 30/6/74)

Anyone who has developed unflinching faith in the Lord and the Spiritual Master can understand the revealed scripture unfolding before him'. So continue your present aptitude and you will be successful in your spiritual progress. I am sure that even if I am not physically present before you, still you will be able to execute all spiritual duties in the matter of Krsna Consciousness, if you follow the above principles. (Letter to Subala, 29/9/67)

So although a physical body is not present, the vibration should be accepted as the presence of the Spiritual Master, vibration. What we have heard from the Spiritual Master, that is living. (General lectures, 69/01/13)

Devotee: ...so sometimes the Spiritual Master is far away. He may be in Los Angeles. Somebody is coming to Hamburg Temple. He thinks 'How will the Spiritual Master be pleased?'
Srila Prabhupada: Just follow his order, Spiritual Master is along with you by his words. Just like my Spiritual Master is not physically present, but I am associating with him by his words. (SB Lectures, 71/08/18)

Just like I am working, so my Guru Maharaja is there, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. Physically he may not be, but in every action he is there. To serve master's word is more important than to serve physically. (Room Conversation, Vrindavan, 2/5/77)

So that is called prakata, physically present. And there is another phrase, which is called aprakata, not physically present. But that does not mean, Krsna is dead or God is dead. That does not mean, prakata or aprakata, physically present or not present, it does not matter. (Lectures SB 73/12/11)

So, spiritually, there is no question of separation, even physically we may be in far distant place. (Letter to Syama Dasi, 30/08/68)

I went to your country for spreading this information of Krsna Consciousness and you are helping me in my mission, although I am not physically present there but spiritually I am always with you. (Letter to Nandarani, Krsna Devi and Subala, 3/10/67)

We are not separated actually. There are two - Vani or Vapuh - so Vapu is physical presence and Vani is presence by the vibration, but they are all the same. (Letter to Hamsadutta, 22/6/70)

So in the absence of physical presentation of the spiritual master, the Vaniseva is more important. My Spiritual Master Sarsavati Goswami, may appear to be physically not present, but still because I try to serve his instruction, I never feel separated from him. (Letter to Karandhara, 22/8/70)

I also do not feel separation from my Guru Maharaja. When I am engaged in his service, his pictures give me sufficient strength. To serve master's word is more important than to serve him physically. (Letter to Syamasundara, 19/7/70)

The disciple and spiritual master are never separated because the spiritual master always keeps company with the disciple as long as the disciple follows strictly the instructions of the spiritual master. This is called the association of vani (words). Physical presence is called vapuh. As long as the spiritual master is physically present, the disciple should serve the physical body of the spiritual master, and when the spiritual master is no longer physically existing, the disciple should serve the instructions of the spiritual master. (SB 4.28.47 P)

In conclusion, if a disciple is very serious to execute the mission of the spiritual master, he immediately associates with the Supreme Personality of Godhead by vani or vapuh. This is the only secret of success in seeing the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Instead of being eager to see the Lord in some bush of Vrndavana while at the same time engaging in sense gratification, if one instead sticks to the principle of following the words of the spiritual master, he will see the Supreme Lord without difficulty. (SB 4.28.51 P)

'No Compromise' - Srila Prabhupada

 

Paramahamsa: Our position in preaching should be to

encourage people in all respects to associate with us.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Paramahamsa: That means sometimes we might have to compromise in certain ways.
Prabhupada: Why compromise? You don't compromise. Then you associate with him. If you make compromise, then you associate with him. Then gradually you'll also go down. When we, when we see some person, we do not associate with him, but we give him chance to associate with me. Why you should make compromise? What is the reason? If you know something positively, why should you make compromise? When people come to talk with me, see me, I don't make any compromise. Do I make any compromise?
Devotees: No.
(MW Paris 11/07/74)

Indian man: There was some trouble with your movement in America recently.
Prabhupada: We don’t care for this trouble. If you are sincere it is all right. We are facing so many difficulties. We don’t care for it. We never compromise. All my students, they will never compromise. Why shall I compromise? If I am confident that I am speaking the truth, why shall I make compromise? Those who are not confident of his position, they will make compromise. One who does not know where he stands, he will make compromise. And if I know where I am standing, why shall I make compromise? Let others do whatever he likes. This is our position.
(Press Int. Bombay 31/12/76)

The fact is that I am the only one in India who is openly criticizing, not only demigod worship and impersonalism, but everything that falls short of complete surrender to Krsna. My Guru Maharaja never compromised in His preaching, nor will I, nor should any of my students. We are firmly convinced that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and all others are His part and parcel servants. This we must declare boldly to the whole world. (Letter 72-01-03)

If I criticize them, they become angry. So what can I do? I have to speak the truth. I cannot amalgamate real and nonreal. That is not possible. (740315CC.VRN)

We have got a very nice diamond. Try to sell it. If there is a purchaser, he will purchase. Otherwise not. It is our duty to canvas. But we cannot sell iron instead of diamonds. (770410rc.bom)

We say plainly, You are all rascals. That's all. You have no discrimination. Anyone who does not believe as it is, he's a rascal. That's all. He may be happy or sorry. You don't mind. You don't make compromise. (750323ar.may)

No-one should resent the incisive words of a preacher; they should appreciate his straightforwardness and beneficial instructions. As Canakya Pandita says, "He who speaks out plainly cannot be a deceiver." (Niti Sastra 5.5)

When you become actually preacher of God consciousness, you cannot make any compromise. You must call a spade a spade. (721016SB.Vrin)

Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mäm ekam saranam vraja: “Let aside everything. Just become My devotee, a surrendered soul.” So we are preaching that. We don’t make compromise. Therefore all people are against me. Because “This man simply says, ‘Krsna.’ ” But I cannot say anything more. (731228sb.la)

We don't make any compromise. What we believe, we are preaching that. People are accepting. So you believe or not believe; it doesn't matter for us. (751113mw.Bom)

We cannot compromise to satisfy others. (Letter, September 30, 1973)

A devotee should never make compromises with nondevotees. (CC Mad. 12.135p)

But I cannot make any compromise I shall... My life is ended, now eighty-one. I do not... But so long I shall live I shall make no compromise, krsnas tu bhagavan svayam. Drdha-vrata. And that is a fact. Why shall I mislead people? They are searching after God, what is God. Here is God. Why don’t you take it.
(Conv. Hyderebad 24/08/76)

We don’t make any flattery to satisfy the whims of the ordinary people. We speak from Srimad-Bhagavatam, we speak from Bhagavad-gita, and present them as it is, without any adulteration. This is our position. If you like, then you make progress. If you don’t like, that is your option. But we cannot make any compromise. We must present the sastra as it is. (740927sb.cal)

In spiritual matters, everything is spoken frankly, without compromise. We say, "If you are not Krsna conscious, then you are a rascal. You may be the president. That doesn't matter. But because you are not Krsna conscious, you are a rascal." There is no compromise, "Oh, he is a big man." So many scientists come. I say, "You are a rascal. You are a demon." (laughter) I say it. (731231sb.la)

“Give up everything. Simply surrender unto Me.” This is confidential knowledge. Jnana, karma, yoga, this will not help. It will take some time. You can waste your time in that way, you are at liberty, but real dharma is that “You fully surrender unto Me. Don’t talk nonsense.” Arjuna was talking so many nonsense things. So Krsna ultimately said, “My dear Arjuna, you are My confidential friend. Therefore I am asking you. You do this. Don’t waste your time. It will not help.” It will help—bahunam janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19]. You can go on with your learning, with your study of Vedas, with your practice of yoga or ritualistic ceremonies, karma-kanda, jnana-kanda, but unless you come to this point—sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]—there is no happiness. That is not possible. This is the confidential... So if this confidential knowledge, one who preaches without any compromise, he is the confidential servant of Krsna. There is no compromise. This is real religion. (SB Lect. Vrindavan 30/11/76)

Prabhupada: No. Why compromise? My Guru Mahäräja never made any compromise.
Atreya Rsi: Compromise means you have some material attachment.
Prabhupada: Yes, compromise means you don't want real business but you want some money by cheating and by bluffing. That's all. That is compromise.
(Conv. San Diego 29/06/72)

I don’t make any compromise with these rascals. No words. No, no. I never made that. Even if I don’t get any disciples, I’ll be satisfied. But I can’t make any compromise like these rascals. I cannot make. Ekas candras tamo hanti na ca tara sahasrasah. If I create one moon, that is sufficient. I don’t want many stars. That was my Guru Maharaja’s principle, and that is my principle. What is the use of having number of fools and rascals? If one man understands rightly, he can deliver the whole world. (MW Bombay 12/03/74)

Tell them. Challenge them, “What do you know about the value of life? Your brain must be washed to clear out all the dirty things.” Our duty is that. Just like a patient does not know how he will be cured, but the surgeon—“Operation. Clear out these pusses.” He may protest, “Oh, you are clearing out my pusses!” But “Yes! It is my business. Clear out the pusses. Then you will be relieved—by force.” But he can protest, “Oh, you are clearing out my pusses!” “Pusses, what for you...? Pusses is not to be maintained. It has to be cleared out.” This is para upakara, doing good to others. And the patient will protest, “Oh, this rascal doctor, killing me, killing me, killing me!” “Yes, I am not killing you. I am saving you. You go on accusing me any way, but I must do my duty.” This is the point. “Yes, we are washing brain,” exactly like the experienced surgeon. He doesn’t make any compromise. “Oh, you are suffering from the boil. There is pus. All right, you don’t like operation?” Will that cure? “”No, fool! Come one. Bring knife. Cut it. Press. Now?” “Oh, I am so relieved! You are God. You are God.” Then he will see. That is our duty: purge out all pusses accumulated due to infection, material infection. This is our duty. We cannot make any compromise. When the pusses are to be purged out, we cannot take your advice, that “Just blow some air from the mouth or some fan. It will be cured.” No, it will not be. Take surgical operation. That is only way. Purge out. (Conv. Bhubaneswar 21/01/77)

Pusna Krsna: All of the others are trying to make some compromise.
Prabhupada: That is also bad. How we can make compromise? Here is gold, here is iron, how you can compromise? Can we accept iron as gold? All right, let us accept. (laughs) Where is the possibility?
Hari-Sauri: They don’t see that clearly. They are looking at their iron and thinking it’s gold.
Prabhupada: They are seeing... They’re tested. I don’t make any compromise. All my speaking is also no compromise.
(Conv. New Vrindavan 01/07/76)

Prabhupada: No. How can I say anything which is not spoken by Krsna? Krsna is.... Krsna says, na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhama mayayapahåta-jnana [Bg. 7.15]. So we have got this test: if anyone has no interest in Krsna, he must be with these groups, that’s all. Duskrtina, mdhha, naradhama. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, yare dekha tare kaha ‘krsna-upadesa’ [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. So how can I violate?
Dr. Patel: No.
Prabhupada: Both ways. I cannot violate. Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that you simply speak what Krsna has said, and Krsna says that anyone who is not Krsna conscious, he is a rascal. He is a most sinful man, he is the lowest of mankind. So why shall I not say? It is not firing; it is telling the truth. (laughs with Patel) But I am not loser. I am, I do not make any compromise. All these my students ask, I never made any compromise. But still they understand, and they are with me.
(MW Bombay 18/12/75)

Prabhupada: Don’t make compromise. This principle must be observed. Then you’ll remain strong. As soon as you make compromise, then it is finished. Drdha-vratah.
Find out this verse. Drdha-vratah. What is that? Bhajante mam drdha-vratah. Namasyantas ca mam...
Caru: Bhajante mam drdha-vratah.
Prabhupada: Ah, ah. That drdha-vratah must be there, strong determination. Then it will go on. The scientists will come to learn and the psychiatrists will come to learn if you keep drdha-vratah. And as soon as you make compromise, then nobody will care for (it). (Conv. Melbourne 02/07/74)

If you become Krsna conscious, the whole world will be your enemy. You must be prepared for that. (740802BG.VRN)

As soon as you become successful, there will be many enemies. That is natural. That is the sign of success. (731103rc.del)

Unless there is opposition, it is not genuine. It is not genuine or it is not serious. Opposition must be there. (770109mw.bom)

Opposition is our victory. (770109rc.bom)

Please see: Strong preaching was essence

PADA's 'Cyber Goth Girls' YouTube Video

This is Tim Lee's YouTube channel 'pada1008':

http://www.youtube.com/user/pada1008/videos

Here is some of his 'Hare Krishna Meditation Music':



Here is a typical video from a YouTube channel he is subscribed to:

He uploaded this 'Cyber Goth Girls with Goth Music' video to his channel six years ago:

If you click the 'deviant art' link under the video you will find 9 pages of photographs:

http://goonishnob.deviantart.com/gallery/

Here are a few of those photographs:

       

 

 

 

 

 

Here is a comment about Tim's 'Cyber Goth Girls' video from Nick Lakshmana dasa Mason:

"I don't even understand why you uploaded this video?"

Neither do we Nick!.. Anyone?..
Maybe it has something to do with his obsession with "child-chopping" and "bloodbaths"?

--------------------------------------------------------

Krishna Kirtan:
WHY, WHY?

Now you ask yourself. Why would Tim Lee do this? The answer is simple:

While espousing and trying to own the narrative on all the important issues (like the poison issue etc all), the detriment of his own character serves his psyops cause even more so. Why?

Because anyone looking at this would easily dislike this type of material, and subsequently he would be discrediting himself in the process. For someone who knows nothing about the serious, important and valid issues (which Tim Lee talks about non-stop), discreting himself through these type of thing would serve to discredit all the valid material as well. In other words, to someone looking at Tim Lee and his presentation, he must be crazy, therefore anything else that he talks about (many of which are true), would be instantly categorized as nonsense hateful propaganda.

A great example of psyops tactics, just one example. The manipulation tactics are numerous, and usually people fall for them easily, simply because they are not willing nor prepared to do their own unbiased filtering and research.

Tim Lee is working as gate keeper between the devotees and the world in general. He has two simultaneous objectives:

The first objective is to get devotees disillusioned with Krishna consciousness by playing on their emotions through his negative and solutionless presentation, and the other objective, which is performed simultaneously, is to alienate as quickly as possible anyone new to Krishna consciousness before they get too far into it.

That's his JOB, literal job. It's just a job, and that's how he sees it, and that's what it is for him and his higher ups.

Narada-kunda Dasi:yes, a job nicely explains how someone can act in ways a normal human being (what to speak of a devotee) would not, always persisting in rascaldom despite feedback :)

Bhakti Ananda Goswami II:

Previously I only saw a few of these photos, and I did not look for more, as I did not want to see pictures of his daughter mentioned by someone. Now more photos are showing in this thread, and it is clear that he or someone, wants him to be taken-for a 'satanist', whether or not he is one. I have not looked at any of the videos linked. I know that Loka Nunda is into bondage-type gay porn related 'tantric' punk 'music', because he was a poster on the GALVA facebook Page, where I used to try to educate people about the difference between their 'gay' identification, their actual bodily sex, their subtler 'subtle body' gender identity, and their real Spiritual Identity. The Krishna Consciousness Movement has attracted all kinds of people. Loka Nunda's claim was that he was preaching to a certain kind of person. Are these photos and video links actually put up by Tim, or is he being publicly defamed himself by these links? I am not a computer tech person, or very conversant with youtube. Does Tim 'own' these photos and links, or does he disavow them? Another question is what his mental state and culpability is. I worked with the severely mentally ill for decades, and in Alzeimers, for example, mental deterioration is getting serious for an average of 15 YEARS before the person is finally deemed unable to care for them self anymore and institutionalized Thus, for example, President Reagan was demented and being cared-for and effectively handled by others for 15 years before he left office and Immediately was removed from the public sphere to cover-up his advanced dementia.

If Tim is now quite demented, as seems obvious, then all kinds of bizarre things could be coming out of him, but his supporters may be playing damage-control by ghost-writing the more rational-sounding letters 'from' him. If I was Tim or his family, I would be more worried about his own supporters killing him as their final damage-control effort. If he is a dangerous someone's puppet or a dangerous someone's master, either way, if he out-lives his usefulness, the dangerous someone will want to dis-credit or dispose of him.

He really appears to be immoral and darkly demented and 'possessed' by something very ugly. If he was in an extended care hospital ('nursing home') he would not be allowed to indulge in such sadistic-looking fantasies or to inflict his dark imaginings on the other patients. Essentially he would be socially isolated from the rest of the patients, rather than to let him disturb their minds with such sick talk, 'music' or imagery.

I was once the activities director and social worker designee for a private teacher's union 'nursing home', and if Tim was a patient there, the rest of our patient population, and staff, would definitely have been protected from him, in keeping with our policies. Of course because he has not been institutionalized or legally restrained, he is free to cause as much harm to others as he can get-away with.