'No Compromise' - Srila Prabhupada

 

Paramahamsa: Our position in preaching should be to

encourage people in all respects to associate with us.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Paramahamsa: That means sometimes we might have to compromise in certain ways.
Prabhupada: Why compromise? You don't compromise. Then you associate with him. If you make compromise, then you associate with him. Then gradually you'll also go down. When we, when we see some person, we do not associate with him, but we give him chance to associate with me. Why you should make compromise? What is the reason? If you know something positively, why should you make compromise? When people come to talk with me, see me, I don't make any compromise. Do I make any compromise?
Devotees: No.
(MW Paris 11/07/74)

Indian man: There was some trouble with your movement in America recently.
Prabhupada: We don’t care for this trouble. If you are sincere it is all right. We are facing so many difficulties. We don’t care for it. We never compromise. All my students, they will never compromise. Why shall I compromise? If I am confident that I am speaking the truth, why shall I make compromise? Those who are not confident of his position, they will make compromise. One who does not know where he stands, he will make compromise. And if I know where I am standing, why shall I make compromise? Let others do whatever he likes. This is our position.
(Press Int. Bombay 31/12/76)

The fact is that I am the only one in India who is openly criticizing, not only demigod worship and impersonalism, but everything that falls short of complete surrender to Krsna. My Guru Maharaja never compromised in His preaching, nor will I, nor should any of my students. We are firmly convinced that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and all others are His part and parcel servants. This we must declare boldly to the whole world. (Letter 72-01-03)

If I criticize them, they become angry. So what can I do? I have to speak the truth. I cannot amalgamate real and nonreal. That is not possible. (740315CC.VRN)

We have got a very nice diamond. Try to sell it. If there is a purchaser, he will purchase. Otherwise not. It is our duty to canvas. But we cannot sell iron instead of diamonds. (770410rc.bom)

We say plainly, You are all rascals. That's all. You have no discrimination. Anyone who does not believe as it is, he's a rascal. That's all. He may be happy or sorry. You don't mind. You don't make compromise. (750323ar.may)

No-one should resent the incisive words of a preacher; they should appreciate his straightforwardness and beneficial instructions. As Canakya Pandita says, "He who speaks out plainly cannot be a deceiver." (Niti Sastra 5.5)

When you become actually preacher of God consciousness, you cannot make any compromise. You must call a spade a spade. (721016SB.Vrin)

Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mäm ekam saranam vraja: “Let aside everything. Just become My devotee, a surrendered soul.” So we are preaching that. We don’t make compromise. Therefore all people are against me. Because “This man simply says, ‘Krsna.’ ” But I cannot say anything more. (731228sb.la)

We don't make any compromise. What we believe, we are preaching that. People are accepting. So you believe or not believe; it doesn't matter for us. (751113mw.Bom)

We cannot compromise to satisfy others. (Letter, September 30, 1973)

A devotee should never make compromises with nondevotees. (CC Mad. 12.135p)

But I cannot make any compromise I shall... My life is ended, now eighty-one. I do not... But so long I shall live I shall make no compromise, krsnas tu bhagavan svayam. Drdha-vrata. And that is a fact. Why shall I mislead people? They are searching after God, what is God. Here is God. Why don’t you take it.
(Conv. Hyderebad 24/08/76)

We don’t make any flattery to satisfy the whims of the ordinary people. We speak from Srimad-Bhagavatam, we speak from Bhagavad-gita, and present them as it is, without any adulteration. This is our position. If you like, then you make progress. If you don’t like, that is your option. But we cannot make any compromise. We must present the sastra as it is. (740927sb.cal)

In spiritual matters, everything is spoken frankly, without compromise. We say, "If you are not Krsna conscious, then you are a rascal. You may be the president. That doesn't matter. But because you are not Krsna conscious, you are a rascal." There is no compromise, "Oh, he is a big man." So many scientists come. I say, "You are a rascal. You are a demon." (laughter) I say it. (731231sb.la)

“Give up everything. Simply surrender unto Me.” This is confidential knowledge. Jnana, karma, yoga, this will not help. It will take some time. You can waste your time in that way, you are at liberty, but real dharma is that “You fully surrender unto Me. Don’t talk nonsense.” Arjuna was talking so many nonsense things. So Krsna ultimately said, “My dear Arjuna, you are My confidential friend. Therefore I am asking you. You do this. Don’t waste your time. It will not help.” It will help—bahunam janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19]. You can go on with your learning, with your study of Vedas, with your practice of yoga or ritualistic ceremonies, karma-kanda, jnana-kanda, but unless you come to this point—sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]—there is no happiness. That is not possible. This is the confidential... So if this confidential knowledge, one who preaches without any compromise, he is the confidential servant of Krsna. There is no compromise. This is real religion. (SB Lect. Vrindavan 30/11/76)

Prabhupada: No. Why compromise? My Guru Mahäräja never made any compromise.
Atreya Rsi: Compromise means you have some material attachment.
Prabhupada: Yes, compromise means you don't want real business but you want some money by cheating and by bluffing. That's all. That is compromise.
(Conv. San Diego 29/06/72)

I don’t make any compromise with these rascals. No words. No, no. I never made that. Even if I don’t get any disciples, I’ll be satisfied. But I can’t make any compromise like these rascals. I cannot make. Ekas candras tamo hanti na ca tara sahasrasah. If I create one moon, that is sufficient. I don’t want many stars. That was my Guru Maharaja’s principle, and that is my principle. What is the use of having number of fools and rascals? If one man understands rightly, he can deliver the whole world. (MW Bombay 12/03/74)

Tell them. Challenge them, “What do you know about the value of life? Your brain must be washed to clear out all the dirty things.” Our duty is that. Just like a patient does not know how he will be cured, but the surgeon—“Operation. Clear out these pusses.” He may protest, “Oh, you are clearing out my pusses!” But “Yes! It is my business. Clear out the pusses. Then you will be relieved—by force.” But he can protest, “Oh, you are clearing out my pusses!” “Pusses, what for you...? Pusses is not to be maintained. It has to be cleared out.” This is para upakara, doing good to others. And the patient will protest, “Oh, this rascal doctor, killing me, killing me, killing me!” “Yes, I am not killing you. I am saving you. You go on accusing me any way, but I must do my duty.” This is the point. “Yes, we are washing brain,” exactly like the experienced surgeon. He doesn’t make any compromise. “Oh, you are suffering from the boil. There is pus. All right, you don’t like operation?” Will that cure? “”No, fool! Come one. Bring knife. Cut it. Press. Now?” “Oh, I am so relieved! You are God. You are God.” Then he will see. That is our duty: purge out all pusses accumulated due to infection, material infection. This is our duty. We cannot make any compromise. When the pusses are to be purged out, we cannot take your advice, that “Just blow some air from the mouth or some fan. It will be cured.” No, it will not be. Take surgical operation. That is only way. Purge out. (Conv. Bhubaneswar 21/01/77)

Pusna Krsna: All of the others are trying to make some compromise.
Prabhupada: That is also bad. How we can make compromise? Here is gold, here is iron, how you can compromise? Can we accept iron as gold? All right, let us accept. (laughs) Where is the possibility?
Hari-Sauri: They don’t see that clearly. They are looking at their iron and thinking it’s gold.
Prabhupada: They are seeing... They’re tested. I don’t make any compromise. All my speaking is also no compromise.
(Conv. New Vrindavan 01/07/76)

Prabhupada: No. How can I say anything which is not spoken by Krsna? Krsna is.... Krsna says, na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhama mayayapahåta-jnana [Bg. 7.15]. So we have got this test: if anyone has no interest in Krsna, he must be with these groups, that’s all. Duskrtina, mdhha, naradhama. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, yare dekha tare kaha ‘krsna-upadesa’ [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. So how can I violate?
Dr. Patel: No.
Prabhupada: Both ways. I cannot violate. Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that you simply speak what Krsna has said, and Krsna says that anyone who is not Krsna conscious, he is a rascal. He is a most sinful man, he is the lowest of mankind. So why shall I not say? It is not firing; it is telling the truth. (laughs with Patel) But I am not loser. I am, I do not make any compromise. All these my students ask, I never made any compromise. But still they understand, and they are with me.
(MW Bombay 18/12/75)

Prabhupada: Don’t make compromise. This principle must be observed. Then you’ll remain strong. As soon as you make compromise, then it is finished. Drdha-vratah.
Find out this verse. Drdha-vratah. What is that? Bhajante mam drdha-vratah. Namasyantas ca mam...
Caru: Bhajante mam drdha-vratah.
Prabhupada: Ah, ah. That drdha-vratah must be there, strong determination. Then it will go on. The scientists will come to learn and the psychiatrists will come to learn if you keep drdha-vratah. And as soon as you make compromise, then nobody will care for (it). (Conv. Melbourne 02/07/74)

If you become Krsna conscious, the whole world will be your enemy. You must be prepared for that. (740802BG.VRN)

As soon as you become successful, there will be many enemies. That is natural. That is the sign of success. (731103rc.del)

Unless there is opposition, it is not genuine. It is not genuine or it is not serious. Opposition must be there. (770109mw.bom)

Opposition is our victory. (770109rc.bom)

Please see: Strong preaching was essence

PADA's 'Cyber Goth Girls' YouTube Video

This is Tim Lee's YouTube channel 'pada1008':

http://www.youtube.com/user/pada1008/videos

Here is some of his 'Hare Krishna Meditation Music':



Here is a typical video from a YouTube channel he is subscribed to:

He uploaded this 'Cyber Goth Girls with Goth Music' video to his channel six years ago:

If you click the 'deviant art' link under the video you will find 9 pages of photographs:

http://goonishnob.deviantart.com/gallery/

Here are a few of those photographs:

       

 

 

 

 

 

Here is a comment about Tim's 'Cyber Goth Girls' video from Nick Lakshmana dasa Mason:

"I don't even understand why you uploaded this video?"

Neither do we Nick!.. Anyone?..
Maybe it has something to do with his obsession with "child-chopping" and "bloodbaths"?

--------------------------------------------------------

Krishna Kirtan:
WHY, WHY?

Now you ask yourself. Why would Tim Lee do this? The answer is simple:

While espousing and trying to own the narrative on all the important issues (like the poison issue etc all), the detriment of his own character serves his psyops cause even more so. Why?

Because anyone looking at this would easily dislike this type of material, and subsequently he would be discrediting himself in the process. For someone who knows nothing about the serious, important and valid issues (which Tim Lee talks about non-stop), discreting himself through these type of thing would serve to discredit all the valid material as well. In other words, to someone looking at Tim Lee and his presentation, he must be crazy, therefore anything else that he talks about (many of which are true), would be instantly categorized as nonsense hateful propaganda.

A great example of psyops tactics, just one example. The manipulation tactics are numerous, and usually people fall for them easily, simply because they are not willing nor prepared to do their own unbiased filtering and research.

Tim Lee is working as gate keeper between the devotees and the world in general. He has two simultaneous objectives:

The first objective is to get devotees disillusioned with Krishna consciousness by playing on their emotions through his negative and solutionless presentation, and the other objective, which is performed simultaneously, is to alienate as quickly as possible anyone new to Krishna consciousness before they get too far into it.

That's his JOB, literal job. It's just a job, and that's how he sees it, and that's what it is for him and his higher ups.

Narada-kunda Dasi:yes, a job nicely explains how someone can act in ways a normal human being (what to speak of a devotee) would not, always persisting in rascaldom despite feedback :)

Bhakti Ananda Goswami II:

Previously I only saw a few of these photos, and I did not look for more, as I did not want to see pictures of his daughter mentioned by someone. Now more photos are showing in this thread, and it is clear that he or someone, wants him to be taken-for a 'satanist', whether or not he is one. I have not looked at any of the videos linked. I know that Loka Nunda is into bondage-type gay porn related 'tantric' punk 'music', because he was a poster on the GALVA facebook Page, where I used to try to educate people about the difference between their 'gay' identification, their actual bodily sex, their subtler 'subtle body' gender identity, and their real Spiritual Identity. The Krishna Consciousness Movement has attracted all kinds of people. Loka Nunda's claim was that he was preaching to a certain kind of person. Are these photos and video links actually put up by Tim, or is he being publicly defamed himself by these links? I am not a computer tech person, or very conversant with youtube. Does Tim 'own' these photos and links, or does he disavow them? Another question is what his mental state and culpability is. I worked with the severely mentally ill for decades, and in Alzeimers, for example, mental deterioration is getting serious for an average of 15 YEARS before the person is finally deemed unable to care for them self anymore and institutionalized Thus, for example, President Reagan was demented and being cared-for and effectively handled by others for 15 years before he left office and Immediately was removed from the public sphere to cover-up his advanced dementia.

If Tim is now quite demented, as seems obvious, then all kinds of bizarre things could be coming out of him, but his supporters may be playing damage-control by ghost-writing the more rational-sounding letters 'from' him. If I was Tim or his family, I would be more worried about his own supporters killing him as their final damage-control effort. If he is a dangerous someone's puppet or a dangerous someone's master, either way, if he out-lives his usefulness, the dangerous someone will want to dis-credit or dispose of him.

He really appears to be immoral and darkly demented and 'possessed' by something very ugly. If he was in an extended care hospital ('nursing home') he would not be allowed to indulge in such sadistic-looking fantasies or to inflict his dark imaginings on the other patients. Essentially he would be socially isolated from the rest of the patients, rather than to let him disturb their minds with such sick talk, 'music' or imagery.

I was once the activities director and social worker designee for a private teacher's union 'nursing home', and if Tim was a patient there, the rest of our patient population, and staff, would definitely have been protected from him, in keeping with our policies. Of course because he has not been institutionalized or legally restrained, he is free to cause as much harm to others as he can get-away with.

Bharatarshabha Dasa (ISKCON Bangalore) Censors Prabhupada's Instructions re. Kirtan Standards

Bharatarshabha Dasa (ISKCON Bangalore) wrote the following article on ISKCON Times but did not include any of Srila Prabhupada's instructions regarding kirtan standards & the public presentation of Krsna consciousness. We sent him many quotes (below) but he refused to publish any of them in his article saying that they were not relevant! Why is he deliberately hiding Prabhupada's instructions from the devotees? Is he acting independently or is this ISKCON Bangalore policy?

Western Music Kirtans at ISKCON Bangalore:

ISKCON Bangalore's 'Yugadharma Band' 2014

Hip-thrusting, rock & rolling bramachari Sarvalakshan Das (Akshaya Patra / FOLK Jaipur) also ignored/deleted Prabhupada's numerous quotes about Kirtan standards:

'Kirtans with Western music - there is no harm' - Srila Prabhupada
By: Bharatarashabha Dasa       

A reply to objections raised by some devotees on ISKCON Bangalore conducting the New Year eve celebrations where Western music accompanied kirtans.

The New Year eve event was organized by ISKCON Bangalore as a means to engage the youth in an innovative manner through which Krishna consciousness is packaged into a programme. It generally starts with playing the recording of a lecture by Srila Prabhupada. It also has many devotees preaching about the importance of Krishna consciousness. Plays are staged by the youth based on Srimad Bhagavatam and Chaitanya Charitamrita. Interspersed between these are kirtans of ISKCON sung to the accompaniment of Western musical instruments with pop or rock and roll music. But some purists, so-called strict adherents of Srila Prabhupada are objecting to this saying that it is against Srila Prabhupada’s teachings. They are even going to the extent of branding ISKCON Bangalore devotees as deviants and not true followers of Prabhupada.

The so-called strict adherents’ assertions on this issue can be summarized as follows: 

1. We should never have any kirtan at any time by using Rock and Roll, and a true follower of Srila Prabhupada never participates in any such event. 

2. Srila Prabhupada by his personal example demonstrated that it is better to do only traditional kirtans all the time and never use pop or Western style because even in the Mantra Rock Dance he sang kirtans with kartalas.

3. Anybody who is conducting an event with Rock and Roll is deviating from his example and is faithless in his words and is a deviant and not a strict follower of Prabhupada.

4. Srila Prabhupada sung some 50 odd melodies and only those should be sung and nothing else.

5. This is the Vaishnava standard of kirtans and we should strictly follow it and never deviate from this and if we do so we are going away from the Parampara.

6. Pop,  etc., should not be used at all for singing songs related to Krishna

The Mantra-Rock Dance poster by Harvey W. Cohen (created December 1966)

Most of the above assertions by these so-called adherents are assumptions and are not directly mentioned by Prabhupada. On the contrary he himself by his personal example authorized packaging of Krishna conscious content with pop and other forms of musical tunes with a view to attract gross outsiders. These so-called strict Prabhupada adherents are adding words into Prabhupada’s words and actions and interpreting it in a particular way due to their bias. They lack faith in the instructions of the spiritual master. There is a clear precedence in Srila Prabhupada’s action itself to prove that he allowed the usage of POP and other forms of Western music to be part of packaging Krishna conscious kirtans and philosophy to attract gross outsiders, but he also warned that these should not be part of regular temple kirtans and programmes.

The most obvious precedent is the Mantra Rock Dance event:

Source: wikipedia

To raise funds, gain supporters for the new temple, and to popularize Prabhupada's teachings among the hippie and counter-cultural audience of the Haight-Ashbury scene, the team decided to hold a charitable rock concert and invited Prabhupada to attend. Despite his position as a Vaishnava sannyasi and some of his New York followers objecting to what they saw as an inappropriate invitation of their guru to a place full of "amplified guitars, pounding drums, wild light shows, and hundreds of drugged hippies," Prabhupada agreed to travel from New York to San Francisco and take part in the event. Using their acquaintance with Rock Scully, manager of the Grateful Dead, and Sam Andrew, founding member and guitarist of the Big Brother and the Holding Company – who were among the most prominent rock bands in California at the time – Shyamasundar and Gurudas secured their consent to perform for charity at the concert, charging only the "musicians' union minimum" of $250. Malati Dasi happened to hear Moby Grape, a relatively unknown group at the time, and she convinced the other team members to invite the band to play at the concert as well.

After a short address by Prabhupada, Ginsberg sang "Hare Krishna" to the accompaniment of sitar, tambura, and drums, requesting the audience to "Just sink into the sound vibration, and think of peace." Then Prabhupada stood up and led the audience in dancing and singing, as the Grateful Dead, Big Brother and the Holding Company, and Moby Grape joined the chanting and accompanied the mantra with their musical instruments. The audience eagerly responded, playing their own instruments and dancing in circles.

Because of their bias, these purists are forgetting that Srila Prabhupada himself authorized an event called Mantra Rock Dance to be conducted for the purpose of raising funds for the temple and he himself attended it. He did not criticize Allen Ginsberg for singing Hare Krishna Mantra in his own musical tune in mantra rock dance. He did not object to the various musicians playing their instruments accompanying his kirtans in the mantra rock dance event.

Please read the following conversation that took place in Vrindavana on Nov 25th 1976.

Prabhupada: No, no. Not in the temple. If the wordings are all right, so there is no... If there is no mistake in the set-up of the wording, the change of musical tune, that is not harmful.

Gopala Krishna: This one tape that Alex has made, he gave me a copy in Bombay to listen. I just played it...

Prabhupada: Hare Krishna, this vibration, you can make in different tune. We are already doing that.

Hari-sauri: We're talking about these songs that they are writing.

Jagadisa: Philosophy songs.

Prabhupada: And therefore we have to see the words.

Hari Sauri: Like this "caterpillar had a change of heart."

Jagadisha: If the words are all right, then they can be played in the temple?

Gopala Krishna: Because no one can hear the words. It's the pop music that people hear.

Akshyananda: Actually the words are just like modern pop songs. You can't tell really what it means. I suggested to those people. I said, "Why don't you put music to Prabhupada's books? Take the words straight from your..."

Hari Sauri: No, Prabhupada's approved this method for attracting karmis.

Akshyananda: Yes, not for devotees.

Hari Sauri: But the thing is once you become a devotee, we don't need...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Akshyananda: That kind of music also reminds us of past bad activities, sinful activities.

Hari Sauri: The question is whether should it be played in the temple or not?

Prabhupada: Temple may not be played. What is use of playing in the temple?

Gopala Krishna: I know from practical experience, Srila Prabhupada, that... I just played this Alex's record. It's all current pop music with English philosophy wording. And all the brahmacharis were so agitated, they came to my room to listen and they were, you know, really making fun of it like it was a pop...

Akshyananda: Because that style of music it reminds us of the nightclubs or whatever it might be.

Prabhupada: Therefore I said it is better not to make these records.

Gopala Krishna: Just your these records and parampara records should be played, I think. There are so many tapes of your records.

Hari Sauri: This style that they are doing now, they explain that they wanted that because then that way, they'll be able get them played on the radio. Otherwise they won't play bhajans or anything on the radio. But there's a distinction between that kind of music and pure Krishna consciousness music. Even though the words indicate Krishna consciousness, most of the songs are written in such a way that it's indirect. It's not directly Krishna.

Gopala Krishna: But you can't hear the words.

Prabhupada: Yes, indirect.

Hari Sauri: They give this thing, "The caterpillar changed his mind," like that. It provokes some speculation.

Prabhupada: No, indirect for gross outsiders, not for us. Therefore they should not be played in the temple. Gross outsider only.
<Note by Prahlad Das - As we can see in the Bangalore rock band videos above, there are many Brahmacaris & temple devotees dancing along. Are they also "gross outsiders"? And the poster for SANKALP 2014 actually states "ONLY FOR FOLK MEMBERS">

In this conversation, Srila Prabhupada is authorizing the use of POP music to attract gross outsiders by songs composed in English about Krishna conscious philosophy by his disciples. 

ISKCON Bangalore is conducting a programme on New Year’s eve to engage the youth in Krishna Conscious activities  and we are getting budding musicians to  sing our Narasimha kirtan, etc., in POP or Western style to attract “gross outsiders”. Many of these students sing the kirtans in college on their own and it is making them think of Krishna. They would have anyway heard some hard rock. But instead they have been guided to hear about Krishna and we are thus attracting a gross outsider as mentioned by Srila Prabhupada.

This is one of the many events which ISKCON Bangalore is conducting for the youth. We engage the more serious youth in nagar sankirtan, book distribution, cleaning the temple and other services. Many of them eventually take to serious chanting and take initiation and some even join the temple as sevaites.

On the other hand, ISKCON Bangalore is also sensitive to Srila Prabhupada’s instructions that kirtans in the temple are to be standard. The devotees are using instruments authorized by Srila Prabhupada and are singing tunes as per standard in the temple and festivals. In fact the temple has forbidden using Bongos and other instruments in the kirtans and temple related programmes. 

These so-called adherents should see the context of how a particular instruction of Srila Prabhupada was followed rather than going overboard and branding ISKCON Bangalore as a deviant and not a true follower of Srila Prabhupada.

Hare Krishna. (Bharatarshabha Dasa)
http://iskcontimes.com/kirtans-with-western-music#comment-52083

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The Prabhupada quotes Bharatarshabha Dasa / ISKCON Bangalore / FOLK Jaipur deleted and refused to publish: http://padaproblems.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/srila-prabhupada-kirtan-standards.html

PADA: "Prahlad wants to destroy the entire Krishna religion!"

Timothy Lie



Tim Lee / PADA / krishna1008 January 20, 2014:

[Thanks **** prabhu, Thats fine, my point is, before we side with people like Prahlad, we have to look at his Illuminati and other bogus links he is posting..]

Prahlad Das: What "Illuminati' and other bogus links"? Tim blocked me on FaceBook months ago, so he cannot even see what I am posting.

[..his association with GBC clones like Bhakta das..]

Prahlad Das: I have NO association with Bhakta Das: http://padaproblems.blogspot.in/2014/01/bhakta-dasa-missing-link.html

[..etc..]

Prahlad Das: Who is "etc."?

[..and the fact Prahlad wants to destroy the entire Krishna religion by siding with people who say the religion teaches it should kill and chop up child molesting victims. And they sent that odious material to the Dallas courts and New York Times -- to attempt to legally prove that this is what Krishna teaches, and they wanted to prove that legally in Dallas courts. They publicly want to advertise the Krishna religion as a child chopping program, and legally prove that by sending that idea to the Dallas Courts / New York Times etc., they want to destroy the entire religion in public. Fortunately, even karmis know that Krishna does not teach that He wants to have to molested children killed and chopped up, but that is what they want to have promoted in Krishna's name, legally and in court, and in the New York Times etc. They want to legally prove this is a child chopper cult, and they are angry that this did not happen, their plan to destroy the religion by painting as a child murdering cult has not worked, so they are angry. Even Windle Turley, as much as he does not understand things, even he knows Krishna does not teach chopping up children like these guys are teaching in public, New York Times, in court etc..]

Prahlad Das: Complete nonsense. There was NEVER even any "child-chopping" letter to begin with!: http://padaproblems.blogspot.in/2014/01/conversation-about-iskcon-children.html

[..We have to look at the fact Prahlad is living in Vrndavana and complains he is alone and without association..]

Prahlad Das: Is it now a sin to choose to live alone in Vrindavan for some time? I am not complaining. In fact i consider myself very fortunate to have such an opportunity.

[..He cannot do anything except try to take down the ritviks and destroy their preaching. The riviks will have faults, agreed, but before we take them down, we might look at what happens if that is done, then we will have people wandering around with no association, no temples, no programs, no nothing, like Prahlad..]

Prahlad Das: How am I trying to "take down the ritviks and destroy their preaching"?.. Oh, I'm not. That is your job.

[..Right now Bangalore has some books distribution with brahmacharis, just like we had in the old days. They are printing and distributing original books and etc., they are preaching, they are making devotees, and if we assist in taking them down, then we will be another version of Prahlad, we will have nothing. And if that program fails Prahlad would be happy. That is my point. I am not defending anyone's faults, I am saying that if all we do is point to other's faults all the time, then we will have nothing, as Prahlad does..]

Prahlad Das: All Tim Lee has done for the last 30 years is point out other's faults. And if he cannot find any faults he just makes them up!: http://padaproblems.blogspot.in/2014/01/unproven-crazy-accusations-by-tim-lee.html

[..In sum, he should not be our leader or example of how to do things..]

Prahlad Das: I have no desire to become anyone's leader. I am just trying to follow Prabhupada's example of how to do things and encouraging other Prabhupadanugas to do the same. Deviating from Prabhupada's instructions will be the cause of downfall for the Prabhupadanuga 'ritviks'.

[..Bangalore branch temple here has never had any rock and roll music, its not their main emphasis, this whole issue has been overblown by a person who wants to take the whole thing down. He sifts through tons of material to find one fault and he goes ballistic on that, to take us all down, he is not a person we should be promoting, that's my point. ys pd]

Prahlad Das: Who is promoting me? I am not trying to "take the whole thing down". I am just concerned about a few deviations from Srila Prabhupada's instructions that are taking place in Bangalore, as in the rest of ISKCON: http://padaproblems.blogspot.in/2014/01/strong-preaching-was-essence.html

"You can know this world is now managed by the Raksasas" - Srila Prabhupada

Obamasura meets Fraudanath? Rakshasa meets Kali-chela?  Kamsa meets Putana?

SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM 5.14.16

kvacit kāla-viṣa-mita-rāja-kula-rakṣasāpahṛta-priyatama-
dhanāsuḥ pramṛtaka iva vigata-jīva-lakṣaṇa āste

Government men are always like carnivorous demons called Rāksasas [man-eaters]. Sometimes these government men turn against the conditioned soul and take away all his accumulated wealth. Being bereft of his life’s reserved wealth, the conditioned soul loses all enthusiasm. Indeed, it is as though he loses his life.

  PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada:
The words rāja-kula-raksasā are very significant. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam was compiled about five thousand years ago, yet government men are referred to as Rāksasas, or carnivorous demons. If government men are opposed to a person, that person will be bereft of all his riches, which he has accumulated with great care over a long period of time. Actually no one wants to pay income taxes—even government men themselves try to avoid these taxes—but at unfavorable times income taxes are exacted forcibly, and the taxpayers become very morose.

Raksasas are understood to be accustomed to eating their own sons, as snakes and many other animals sometimes do. At the present moment in Kali-yuga, Raksasa fathers and mothers are killing their own children in the womb, and some are even eating the fetus with great relish. Thus the so-called civilization is gradually advancing by producing Raksasas. (Srimad-Bhagavatam 10:4:15 purport)

One can go to many ghostly planets and become a Yaksa, Raksa or Pisaca. Pisaca worship is called "black arts" or "black magic". There are many men who practice this black art, and they think that it is spiritualism, but such activities are completely materialistic. (Bhagavad-gita 9:25 purport)

The demon Yaksas are by nature very heinous, and by their demoniac power of illusion they can create many strange phenomena to frighten one who is less intelligent. (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4:10:28)

Just become a little gentle and submissive, and hear these messages from Krsna. Tanu. Tanu means your body, and vak means your words, and mana means mind. Just try to adjust your mind, your body, your words, and hear the Srimad-Bhagavad-gita which is spoken by the Supreme Lord, and put your arguments, put your reason, whatever you have got. Don’t accept it blindly. And think over it, and then you’ll see what is the result.
The Lord says, the raksasam asurah caiva, those who are raksasas... Raksasa means almost man-eaters. Raksasa are called man-eaters, more than tigers. They, for their self-satisfaction, they can eat, even, their own sons. You see? They are called raksasas. No shame. “My sense gratification should be satisfied. Never mind. You go to hell.” So this is the age. So we, we create a machine that everyone comes and becomes smashed in that machine, and my sense satisfaction is there. Although I’ll never be happy by that sense satisfaction. This is going on. You can know this world is now managed by the raksasas. Raksasa. They don’t mind what is happening. They are prepared to sacrifice everything for fulfilling their whimsical nonsense. They are called raksasa. Why they are? Now, they are very much enamored by this material beauty. Not beauty. The material civilization. So they cannot. They cannot understand. It is very difficult for them. They cannot understand. And they’ll never try to understand because they are raksasas. (Lecture NY 1966)

When a Vaiṣṇava king like Dhruva Mahārāja is the head of the government of the entire world, the world is so happy that it is not possible to imagine or describe. Even now, if people would all become Kṛṣṇa conscious, the democratic government of the present day would be exactly like the kingdom of heaven. If all people became Kṛṣṇa conscious they would vote for persons of the category of Dhruva Mahārāja. If the post of chief executive were occupied by such a Vaiṣṇava, all the problems of satanic government would be solved. The youthful generation of the present day is very enthusiastic in trying to overthrow the government in different parts of the world. But unless people are Kṛṣṇa conscious like Dhruva Mahārāja, there will be no appreciable changes in government because people who hanker to attain political position by hook or by crook cannot think of the welfare of the people. They are only busy to keep their position of prestige and monetary gain. They have very little time to think of the welfare of the citizens. (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.9.66 purport)

"So there was a whole big splash of political ideology going around ISKCON (74/75). There was a book about a conspiracy from The John Birch Society that made a big hit. And Prabhupada had confirmed that yes, it's a fact, there are conspiracies and the whole material society is being manipulated by a handful of vested interest groups, demons, raksasas, who take birth on this planet just to control and manipulate." (Ramesvara Interview - page 58)

"I joined ISKCON in 1971. I know this movement.. I noticed the erosion of ISKCON about a year after the departure of Srila Prabhupada. The leaders of ISKCON are deemed as criminals by many. Srila Prabhupada once made a statement in the early seventies; many of you are here in the garbs of a devotee, but you are here to destroy - demons from the lower planetary system have taken birth on this planet just to destroy this movement. We were all bewildered by this statement of Srila Prabhupada - We wondered who were these people? Well, now we know." (Jivadhara Dasa ACBSP. New York USA - BTP Issue 42)

'Strong Preaching was the Essence'

Srila Prabhupada: 'No Compromise'

"Srila Prabhupada was not afraid to expose those who cheat, lie and mislead people in Kali Yuga. He was not afraid to speak the truth about our demoniac leaders and demoniac, horrible, misguided civilization. As devotees, we are supposed to be following Srila Prabhupada and reading his books.."

"Abuse, cover-ups, deviations and hypocrisy are ever-expanding at a fast rate in Kali Yuga, in most institutions and religious organizations. ISKCON has let down its guard to this grave danger. Truths which are lacking in governments and spiritual societies are now sometimes also lacking in ISKCON. This is the truth. When leaders and organizations become corrupted, whistleblowers who cannot tolerate corruption speak out, even if it means they are demonized by the ones they expose. That's the price you pay for truth in Kali Yuga.."

"Demons have infiltrated ISKCON and tossed out Srila Prabhupada's exact, strict instructions for His ISKCON, and now we see a changed ISKCON… Prabhupada's preaching is compromised in ISKCON. Prabhupada disciples are in danger of being banned for speaking his truth of His movement… simply for speaking his words. For example, if we speak about the Women's Lib movement being bogus, now we are labeled 'Taliban'! Makes one wonder seriously what kind of people join ISKCON, then disrespect Srila Prabhupada's exact words and instructions, and cause dissent and doubt and disrespect for his words. They question him and do not take seriously his words on so many topical issues. They refute the Vedic versions, but still call themselves 'ISKCON devotees'?."

"Hindu festivals now abound in ISKCON (not Prabhupada's authorized programs). Useless, embarrassing New Age yoga exercises and rock music programs are held in the temples. Contaminating mayavada elements are being introduced into ISKCON. Bogus sahajiya Bhakti Fest festivals, supported by the very same leaders who fail to renew Book Distribution, Harinams and the Bhakta programs in the USA. Book Distribution is reduced, compromised everywhere in America. Harinams almost vanished.. little devotee making, etc., etc. And a total disrespect and disregard for those who point this truth out.."

 (Jaya Madhava Das)

Full article here: http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/07-13/editorials10342.htm


Various non-devotional activities at ISKCON Durban Rathayatra

RELATED VIDEOS:

Bollywood Dancing at ISKCON Melbourne Rathayatra:



Hippy Mayavadi 'Kirtan' at 'Bhakti' Fest.:



Heavy Metal & Disco 'Kirtans' at ISKCON Bangalore:

Rock 'Kirtan' at Akshaya Patra Jaipur:



Clownish 'Hari-Nama' ISKCON London:



'Festival of Colours' Rave Parties:



Break-dancing in the temple

Ratha Yatra Durban



ISKCON Calgary - Krishna Rap (& 'monkey-dancing' with backs turned to deities)



RELATED ARTICLES:

'Calculated Mission Drift': http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/05-14/editorials11709.htm

'Conglomeration Leads to Spiritual Loss': http://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/btp39_ISKCON_south_africa_durban.html

'How the (ISKCON) West was Lost': http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/11-13/editorials10974.htm

'The Commercialisation of ISKCON UK': http://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/commercialisation_of_iskcon.htm

'The 'Kirtaniya' Infestation in ISKCON': http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/02-13/editorials9820.htm

''Spiritual Slut' and Company: A Corrupting Influence': http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/08-12/editorials8971.htm

'It's Not the Same, So Change the Name!':
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/01-14/editorials11329.htm

Where is the Prabhupadanuga Leadership?

To whom it may concern...

Please accept my obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
I would like to know who the Prabhupadanuga community considers leaders amongst the Prabhupadanugas as a whole? I have addressed serious concerns and so far nobody has come forth to offer their seniority or wisdom to help solve the issue(s) being discussed.

I was impartial for the most part regarding this issue with Tim Lee and PADA. It wasn't until recently that Krsna revealed some truth to me regarding this subject matter. After watching in utter horror at the foul language and personal attacks being thrown like stool, between Tim Lee and NN and his wife mother Rupa Manjari and Nobody doing ANYTHING TO STOP IT, and now watching the infighting between Prahlad das and Tim Lee's numerous articles accusing Prahlad prabhu of being a "child chopper" and what not, I feel absolutely compelled to become involved in this discussion. It is my duty at this point.

There now seems to be a full on movement to address this issue of PADA. It is growing rapidly, and the pressure is mounting for the leaders of the Prabhupadanuga groups to do something. So let us discuss what to do? This isn't going to go away no matter how much we try to ignore it. It must be addressed at this point.

I propose the Prabhupadanugas talk about disassociating themselves with PADA, as it really seems to be hurting our reputation among the devotional community at large. PADA could also be considered hate speech, which is illegal and has consequences in the real world.

If the leaders fail to act on this issue and continue ignoring this very serious problem, in due course you will have another "splinter group" the "Prabhupadanugas against PADA", in which there are already several hundred and growing.

This will not go away... This issue will remain for as long as PADA continues to destroy the Prabhupadanuga's reputation and blaspheme sincere Prabhupadanugas. I am truly concerned about this issue, and now I am truly concerned about the "leadership" or lack thereof of the Prabhupadanuga community.

I thank you for your consideration on this very serious matter.
All glories to His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada, our only shelter in this age of hypocracy and quarrel.

ys - Janardana Das (21/7/13)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bhakta Peter: Its very concerning because Puranjana has done a lot of good work exposing and documenting the bogus gurus, but then when i read him write things that are not true it simply discredits all this other good hard work he has done, Makes no sense.

Narada-kunda Dasi: It does make sense in light of the typical disinfo artists on the net -- the good ones write mostly truth, even up to 80-90%, to gain credibility. Another thing is "running the narrative" and thus precluding sincere people from taking the lead.

Bhakta Peter: yup, the best way to decieve people is to mix lies in with the truth. Since Tim lied about Mukunda and Prahlad, then how do i know he's telling the truth on his site about people like Radhanatha and Bhakti Caru swami? Even saying one lie discredits a person.

'Fighting Lies With Truth - Not More Lies' by IRM (2000)

It seems ironic that just when so many persons are trying to move out of the past era of GBC untruth and onto the path of truth by joining the IRM, Puranjana is moving in the opposite direction as he progressively degenerates into a vicious circle of lies and more lies. We may have all lied and cheated in the past whilst we were in the illusion of the GBC's bogus program, but Puranjana is doing it NOW in the name of Prabhupada and reform, and he claims to never have been in illusion.

Puranjana does deserve credit for having over the years made many valid criticisms of the GBC and its deviant philosophies. He sees, quite rightly, the current guru system as bogus. However if we claim to want to reform ISKCON, yet indulge in the same type of lying, distortion and egotism we accuse the GBC of, then how will we actually succeed in our efforts, or indeed improve anything (even if we did succeed in our efforts)? It will simply be a case of the 'same wine, in a new bottle'. He needs to consider that the rapid success of the IRM has indeed been due to this attempt to adhere to the evidence and truth in all circumstances, even when it may not appear to benefit us in the short-term. Ultimately it will be truth that will power us to victory, not any short-term expedient measures. We hope this article will inspire Puranjana to look deeper within himself and work on self-reform, and edit the anarthas that he sees so clearly in the GBC, out of his own life. In doing so he will be much more effective in his campaign, and a valuable asset rather than just another variation of the GBC lying machine. Puranjana clearly wants to see the current Guru system dismantled. The IRM is dedicated to doing just this, and is currently engaged in a legal battle, as well as many other measures, to bring about the necessary changes. We hope Puranjana will be able to assist this battle once he has been able to suitably re-orientate himself back towards the path of truth.

In conclusion we wish to state that we have no desire to enter into any more discussions on this issue. We will let the matter rest here and get back to our real work of re-instating Srila Prabhupada's orders. It should be very clear to everyone by now where the IRM stands and where PADA stands. We are not concerned with whatever new fabrications that Puranjana may try and 'hit back' with. He has been caught well and truly here with his hands in the cookie jar, and exposed as lying, and no amount of further mud-slinging at the IRM will ever change that. We hope his well-wishers will urge him to see sense and give up such attacks. Even in Kali-Yuga it is said that the 'last leg of religion' - 'truthfulness' - is still standing. It seems ironic that vaisnavas are unable to maintain even this minimum level of religiosity.

Satyam ki vijayate!

Yours in the service of Srila Prabhupada, IRM

FULL ARTICLE HERE: http://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/pada_fighting_lies.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

CLICK THIS LINK FOR FREE SUBSCRIPTION: http://www.iskconirm.com/btp/btpsub.html

Srila Prabhupada's July 9th 'Ritvik Order' Letter +

 
July 9th, 1977

To All G.B.C., and Temple Presidents

Dear Maharajas and Prabhus,

Please accept my humble obeisances at your feet. Recently when all of the GBC members were with His Divine Grace in Vrndavana, Srila Prabhupada indicated that soon He would appoint some of His senior disciples to act as "rittik"-representative of the acarya, for the purpose of performing initiations, both first initiation and second initiation. His Divine Grace has so far given a list of eleven disciples who will act in that capacity:

• His Holiness Kirtanananda Swami
• His Holiness Satsvarupa dasa Gosvami
• His Holiness Jayapataka Swami
• His Holiness Tamala Krsna Gosvami
• His Holiness Hrdayananda Gosvami
• His Holiness Bhavananda Gosvami
• His Holiness Hamsaduta Swami
• His Holiness Ramesvara Swami
• His Holiness Harikesa Swami
• His Grace Bhagavan dasa Adhikari
• His Grace Jayatirtha dasa Adhikari

In the past Temple Presidents have written to Srila Prabhupada recommending a particular devotee’s initiation. Now that Srila Prabhupada has named these representatives, Temple Presidents may henceforward send recommendation for first and second initiation to whichever of these eleven representatives are nearest their temple.

After considering the recommendation, these representatives may accept the devotee as an initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada by giving a spiritual name, or in the case of second initiation, by chanting on the Gayatri thread, just as Srila Prabhupada has done. The newly initiated devotees are disciples of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad, the above eleven senior devotees acting as His representative. After the Temple President receives a letter from these representatives giving the spiritual name or the thread, he can perform the fire yajna in the temple as was being done before. The name of a newly initiated disciple should be sent by the representative who has accepted him or her to Srila Prabhupada, to be included in His Divine Grace’s "Initiated Disciples" book.

Hoping this finds you all well.
Your servant, Tamala Krsna Gosvami
Secretary to Srila Prabhupada
Approved: A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
[Srila Prabhupada's signature appears on the original]

-----------------------------------------------------

Srila Prabhupada’s specific instructions for carrying out initiations in Iskcon after his physical disappearance as asked directly of him by his Governing Board Commissioners on May 28, 1977 was that he would soon recommend some of his disciples to act as officiating acaryas or ritviks representatives. In the following week on June 4, 1977 he wrote in his will that Iskcon directors would have to be his duly initiated disciples. This also confirms his no change “henceforward” order sent to all GBCs and temple presidents the following month (July 9, 1977) proclaiming his 11 chosen ritvik representatives that would initiate future disciples on his behalf even after his physical disappearance. These three seperate instructions are Srila Prabhupada’s actual replies to the direct question from his GBC disciples in charge of ISKCON management on how they should carry on initiations. Over the next 4 months until his physical disappearance, Srila Prabhupada never changed these orders either written or spoken.

• He would appoint some of His senior disciples to act as ritvik - representative of the acarya.
• The above eleven senior devotees acting as His (Prabhupadas) representative.
• The newly initiated devotees are disciples of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.
• The name of a newly initiated disciple should be included in His Divine Grace's "Initiated Disciples" book.
• "...the process for initiation to be followed in the future." (July 11th)
• "...continue to become ritvik and act on my charge." (July 19th)
• "...continue to become ritvik and act on my behalf." (July 31th)